Psi. Official chat for the Psi Jabber client (http://psi-im.org)

Thursday, 22 June 2006< ^ >

Kev has set the subject to: Psi: Kicks for Communication (http://psi-im.org) | Room language: English | We often sleep, so if you don't get an answer immediately, hang around :) | Room logs now available at http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/

Room Configuration

GMT+4
[00:00:07] paulc@car-part.com leaves the room
[00:00:11] <Kev> When we eventually release the new website, we're planning on having an 'under development' section so people can see how we're progressing towards the next release
[00:00:28] Przemo joins the room
[00:00:49] <Kev> more questions...
[00:00:52] <Kev> from Skaarj:
[00:00:53] <Kev> as in psi's roadmap, soon psi is going to be nearly fully xmpp-compatible, will have jingle and fully featured availablity of using muc, so we can say that psi is full Xmpp/Jabber client. Many of them surely will be usefull for users, but i think that most of them like entertainment, even in their own communicator (like Psi). So do you plan to implement some kind of games (for example chess, othello, checkers, maybe more board games), like that from tkabber (or better :]), to make psi even better than was said at beggining ?
[00:01:03] NoAlWin joins the room
[00:01:03] seanegan joins the room
[00:01:14] <spike> kev, that one is yours
[00:01:35] Fritzy leaves the room
[00:01:41] <Kev> well
[00:01:51] <Kev> I hope for people to implement games as plugins
[00:02:22] <Kev> I think it'd be a great use of plugins and I have to confess that I'd probably use a nice game of xmpp chess too
[00:02:31] Fritzy joins the room
[00:02:36] <Kev> however serious my IM intentions usually are :)
[00:03:12] <Kev> from Norman
[00:03:12] jelon joins the room
[00:03:20] <Kev> History system revamp? SqlLite ?
[00:03:26] <spike> i'll take that one
[00:03:42] jelon leaves the room
[00:04:20] <spike> i have been toying around with Sqlite, making some schema here and there. It certainly is a nice tool, given that it is integrated in Qt by default. I've been contacted by an interested person who wants to do the work
[00:04:34] <spike> i promised to contact him on monday
[00:04:49] <spike> so thanks Norman for reminding me that i have failed to keep my promise
[00:04:57] spike writes down to contact the person
[00:05:48] <Kev> "Some time ago there was a pool about Psi T-Shirts. And news on this topic?" (machekku)
[00:05:52] <Kev> No news at yet
[00:05:57] <Kev> we're waiting for a new logo
[00:06:08] <Kev> and at that point, we'll arrange some merchandise
[00:06:16] <Kev> I personally want a Psi mousemat :)
[00:06:28] titon joins the room
[00:07:26] <Kev> another from Machekku
[00:07:43] <Kev> possibly controversial as we approach the end of this session :)
[00:07:51] <Kev> Do you think there is a place for standard PubSub in an IM client like Psi? I mean
*only subscriber* use cases (for example, to subscribe and read new blog messages via
ATOM over XMPP)
[00:08:16] <spike> i'm going to go with 'no'
[00:08:32] <spike> knowing that i won't get any people going into a discussion with me. (god i love moderated channels)
[00:08:46] <Kev> this is my opinion also
[00:09:01] <spike> i know it's in a lot of demand
[00:09:06] <Kev> I think PEP is the IM-interesting profile of Pubsub
[00:09:44] <Kev> !jep 163
[00:09:46] <psidekick> Kev: JEP-0163: Personal Eventing via Pubsub:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0163.html
[00:09:47] <spike> however, we're going to use the same answer as we do with all the features that we don't want to implement:
[00:09:57] <spike> nothing prevents you from writing a plugin to do it
[00:10:05] Norman@Home leaves the room
[00:10:12] <Kev> indeed
[00:10:16] <spike> i think it's a pretty heavy separate project to have a good pubsub reader for the use cases you mention
[00:10:29] Norman@Home joins the room
[00:10:46] <spike> which should be separated as much as possible from the core of Psi as possible, which is an IM client first.
[00:10:53] <Kev> just a last couple of questions thn
[00:10:59] <Kev> from R.H.
[00:11:07] <Kev> If a company was willing to stump up the cash would any of you be interested or in a position to work on Psi/QCA/Isis stuff as a full-time job? (I'm not in a position to offer this, being skint, but perhaps someone who is might see this and be interested!)
[00:11:24] <Kev> I guess this goes to each of us in turn
[00:11:28] <spike> ok
[00:11:35] <spike> who goes first ?
[00:11:41] <Kev> you
[00:11:44] <infiniti> i'll go first
[00:11:51] <spike> ok
[00:12:22] <infiniti> right now SAPO (Portugal Telecom) pays me full time to work on Jabber-related activities, a lot of which goes to QCA and Iris
[00:13:12] <infiniti> (next)
[00:13:28] <Kev> spike:
[00:13:50] <spike> i'm currently finishing my PhD. I'm under a contract by my grant provider to not win any money at this point, which is why i have to turn down any possibility to spend more time on Psi against money. What happens after this is finished (december 2006) is unclear, so who knows, maybe there would be room for me doing some psi at the cost of money.
[00:14:15] <Kev> mblsha: ?
[00:14:17] <spike> i'm leaving it open for the case my first employment plan fails :-)
[00:14:56] <mblsha> i'd be glad to do psi-related work, but preferrably not on full-time basis, but this is negotiatable
[00:15:32] <Kev> that just leaves me then
[00:15:55] <Kev> I've been unfunded since Christmas, trying to finish my PhD and working on Psi
[00:16:24] <Kev> if someone made an interesting offer, there's the possibility of me working on Psi full-time
[00:17:12] nyco@jabber.fr/Meebo leaves the room
[00:17:13] <Kev> there are lots of questions about plugins
[00:17:20] <Kev> "will they be in 0.11"?
[00:17:26] <Kev> we don't know, depends when 0.11 is
[00:17:37] <Kev> "how much will they be able to do?"
[00:17:50] <Kev> complete protocol extension I hope, with easy gui through Qt
[00:18:10] <Kev> theintention is addition to Psi, rather than UI modding
[00:18:41] LRN joins the room
[00:18:45] <Kev> and last question for the night, unless the devs have anything else they want to say
[00:18:50] LRN leaves the room
[00:18:56] <Kev> Fritzy asks: What can non-programming users do to help Psi development?
[00:19:11] <Kev> well
[00:19:12] <spike> donate RAM to kev
[00:19:14] <spike> oh wait no
[00:19:16] LRN joins the room
[00:19:17] <spike> scratch that
[00:19:33] <Kev> one kind user did exactly that yesterday (received and fitted, thank you)
[00:19:54] <spike> send us thank you notes
[00:19:54] <Kev> such that I can get my old mac mini set back up and make osx nightlies
[00:20:02] <Kev> it's great when people thank us
[00:20:08] <spike> i like pats on the back too
[00:20:12] <Kev> we all do
[00:20:21] <spike> :)
[00:20:27] <Kev> it's also great to get involved in the community
[00:20:34] <Kev> answer questions on the forums, or in here
[00:21:08] <Kev> we currently have two people donating hosting to us (Hal and Fritzy) which is a great help
[00:22:00] <Kev> erm
[00:22:17] <Kev> people could send the devs pizza, we all like pizza ;)
[00:22:31] <mblsha> we like hot pizza better though
[00:22:35] <Kev> true
[00:22:40] <spike> indeed, privmsg me for the toppings i prefer
[00:22:41] <mblsha> i'd prefer restaurant invitations ;)
[00:23:43] <spike> final point on the agenda
[00:23:44] <Kev> there are, of course, larger scale donations, as a company might make, as they have in the past (donations of macs to justin when he had no way of makingbuilds, Qt licenses etc)
[00:23:49] <spike> next meeting date
[00:24:02] <spike> do we meet again ? :)
[00:24:08] <Kev> I think this meeting has been a success, there've been lots of questions certainly
[00:24:14] <spike> more than we can answer
[00:24:22] <Kev> (many of which I have lost or not answered, sorry)
[00:24:26] <mblsha> how much questions are still left?
[00:24:27] <Kev> so yes, lets meet again
[00:25:03] <Kev> I guess it would be good to meet again in a couple of months, to coincide with the end of the SoC
[00:25:38] <Kev> so, if the other devs agree, I'll ask you all to keep an eye on the planet or the forums
[00:25:42] <spike> in the meantime, some of us hang around here slacking of course
[00:25:46] ckchris leaves the room
[00:25:52] <infiniti> yes, sounds good
[00:25:56] <mblsha> +1
[00:26:03] spike is now known as remk0
[00:26:04] <Kev> please hang around and chat less formally, indee
[00:26:05] <remk0> +1
[00:26:12] <Kev> thanks for the great turnout guys
[00:26:27] BartVB leaves the room: Logged out
[00:26:47] <Kev> I makeit a round 50 people in the list
[00:26:53] remk0 is now known as spike
[00:27:09] <Kev> thanks to the devs for turning up as well, I know midday is many hours before Justin likes to wake up >:)

Room Configuration

[00:27:21] Chatroom configuration modified
[00:27:30] <spike> Kev: that depends on the day of the week
[00:27:30] <mblsha> it's past midnight here
[00:27:34] <Kev> the room is no longer moderated :)
[00:27:42] Fritzy leaves the room
[00:27:44] <spike> Kev: justin just doesn't do 24 hour days ;)
[00:27:45] <Kev> I'll go through and re-voice you all now :)
[00:27:54] <mblsha> i'll help
[00:28:11] <spike> i can't. Ironically enough, i don't have MUC
[00:28:44] Fritzy joins the room
[00:28:44] Fritzy leaves the room
[00:28:49] <Norman@Home> whoo
[00:29:00] <spike> free at last !
[00:29:17] Fritzy joins the room
[00:29:26] <Norman@Home> spike: heh, the old muc only shows presence change, not affiliation change
[00:29:35] Fritzy taps the mic.
[00:29:41] <Skaarj> was good to watch here
[00:29:47] <mblsha> Kev: in future, you need to educate your bot to do this tiresome thingy
[00:30:03] <Fritzy> bot?
[00:30:05] <psa> ping
[00:30:06] <Kev> mblsha: poke the muc guy to add multi-select :)
[00:30:10] <Kola> multi select
[00:30:12] <psa> is moderation over?
[00:30:15] <G-Lo> many thanks to you, so
[00:30:21] <Kola> really need multi select
[00:30:21] <deucalion> psa: yes
[00:30:24] <mblsha> spike: poke-poke
[00:30:28] <psa> moderation is a PITA :P
[00:30:32] <hawke > hmm, why not just make this unmoderated instead of setting everyone as participants?
[00:30:33] <spike> must be frustrating
[00:30:33] <CarloKok> beta 2 is unbearable here with it stealing focus when someone goes online/offine :)
[00:30:36] <psa> how can you have a conversation with moderation? :-)
[00:30:42] <deucalion> it makes psi trunk crash (moderation, i.e.)
[00:30:47] <spike> psa: you've been in panel discussions before
[00:30:52] <Kola> unmoderated means that people join as participants
[00:30:53] <spike> deucalion: really ?
[00:30:53] <mblsha> psa: not everyone's moderated ;)
[00:30:54] <psa> spike: way too often
[00:30:58] <psa> *shrugs*
[00:30:58] <deucalion> spike: yes
[00:31:00] <Kola> not that visitors can talk
[00:31:09] <IceRAM> CarloKok: this is fixed in the darcs version
[00:31:16] <spike> psa: imagine that everyone would be able to talk :D
[00:31:21] <spike> anyway
[00:31:23] <deucalion> spike: if you speak while being visitor, psi trunk on linux simply "disappears" :D
[00:31:23] <hawke > Kola: Oh. That's stupid.
[00:31:27] <CarloKok> iceram: yeh. I can't wait for the next buld.
[00:31:28] G-Lo leaves the room
[00:31:29] <Kev> psa: given the usual level of noise in this room, I thought it'd becounter-productive :)
[00:31:29] <spike> psa: those are frustrating too as public :)
[00:31:40] <spike> deucalion: haha, good that we tested that then ;-)
[00:31:48] <deucalion> spike: indeed ;)
[00:31:57] <Maxime> Are the plugins will be wrote in a specefic language ?
[00:32:04] <Fritzy> C++/Python
[00:32:09] <CarloKok> tcl!
[00:32:11] <CarloKok> ;)
[00:32:11] maxi-ng leaves the room
[00:32:12] <Kola> tcl/tk!
[00:32:13] <Kev> Maxime: plugins will have to be c++/Qt
[00:32:18] ntfs leaves the room
[00:32:21] <Fritzy> *sniff*
[00:32:21] <Maxime> cool ok
[00:32:32] <Kev> I'll be writing plugins which interface with scripting languages
[00:32:39] <Kola> at least its not ((lisp))
[00:32:47] <Kev> so you'll be able to write a python script for a plugin :)
[00:32:57] <Kev> LISP has many good points
[00:32:58] spike leaves the room
[00:33:10] <Kola> and some bad points
[00:33:15] <Kev> not many
[00:33:20] spike joins the room
[00:33:26] <Kev> I'll certainly write Python plugin
[00:33:31] <Kev> possibly a ruby plugin
[00:33:32] igor joins the room
[00:33:33] Fritzy cheers.
[00:33:35] <IceRAM> mblsha: any estimate on animated emoticons?
[00:33:37] <Kev> definitely not a tcl plugin
[00:33:43] <Kev> and lisp seems unlikely
[00:33:49] Norman/Psi v0.11-dev joins the room
[00:33:52] <Kola> any way to disable emoticons?
[00:33:54] <CarloKok> would be funny to reuse eggdrop scripts :)
[00:34:04] <CarloKok> Kola: somewhere in preferences
[00:34:05] Kev points at iono
[00:34:06] <Maxime> lol
[00:34:06] reaxer joins the room
[00:34:06] <spike> kola: yes, uncheck the 'enable emoticons' checkbokx
[00:34:11] iono distinctions Kev in return
[00:34:11] <Kev> iono: are you an eggdrop?
[00:34:16] Norman/Psi v0.11-dev bathes in the qt4 uglyness
[00:34:18] <iono> yes and i wont stop till my groin bounces off!
[00:34:21] <Kev> :)
[00:34:26] <Kola> i mean... the emoticons button...
[00:34:36] <Kola> emoticons are already off...
[00:34:42] <spike> psa: are you still following ? :)
[00:34:48] <spike> psa: see why we moderate stuff ? :)
[00:34:56] <Fritzy> toggle fullsized windows, Kola.
[00:34:57] <Maxime> "No remote changes to pull in!" sniff...
[00:35:04] vi joins the room
[00:35:12] Kola is used to faster moving channels
[00:35:17] <マチェック> Maxime: see? they're just chatting instead of coding ;)
[00:35:19] <Kola> like 15 lines per second
[00:35:25] <spike> deucalion: have you pulled in the latest patches ?
[00:35:31] soak leaves the room
[00:35:31] <Maxime> yes
[00:35:34] <spike> deucalion: i don't crash here
[00:35:40] <Fritzy> spike: I do.
[00:35:44] igor leaves the room
[00:35:48] <mblsha> IceRAM: i'll try to get them in prior to 0.11 release, if i'll have enought time. but they'll eat lots of CPU, and getting to optimize that could be hard
[00:35:58] <deucalion> spike: because you aren't a visitor
[00:35:59] <deucalion> ;)
[00:36:00] <Fritzy> spike: as a visitor with the latest darcs, if I tried to send a message to the main room, it crashed.
[00:36:02] <Norman@Home> fyi: I've put up today's win32 darcs build
[00:36:02] <IceRAM> mblsha: thanks for the info
[00:36:07] <spike> i am in a testroom
[00:36:07] <iono> :-)
[00:36:13] <spike> and i don't crash
[00:36:16] reaxer leaves the room
[00:36:16] <deucalion> spike: "darcs has no patches to pull".... it only happens when you are a visitor on a moderated channel
[00:36:24] <Kola> Norman, is your builds automatic?
[00:36:38] <deucalion> oh
[00:36:40] <deucalion> mmh
[00:36:48] <Norman@Home> Kola: normally yes, but my pc is moving around for the next 5 weeks,
[00:36:48] <spike> Fritzy, deucalion: gdb please :)
[00:36:54] <Skaarj> reality's calling, see you good guys
[00:36:55] Skaarj leaves the room
[00:37:00] <deucalion> k
[00:37:01] <spike> that would be grrreaaat
[00:37:04] <Kola> reality? whats that?
[00:37:07] <Norman@Home> so builds will happen sporadically for the next week and a half,
[00:37:15] seban leaves the room
[00:37:16] <Norman@Home> then will be suspended for about 3 weeks
[00:37:17] <Fritzy> I would, but now I'm running a different build, Remko.
[00:37:28] Kola will just have to build his own nightlies
[00:37:29] <Florob> Kola: that's where the pizza man is from
[00:37:56] <Kola> i don't eat pizza
[00:38:00] R.H leaves the room
[00:38:09] <spike> wait, i don't have the latest darcs :D
[00:38:10] <Norman/Psi v0.11-dev> devs: what's the -revn on the presence version?
[00:38:16] <albert> Maybe psa knows anything about the other jabber related SoC projects that are not directly related to Psi or its developers?
[00:38:20] <Norman/Psi v0.11-dev> is that updated everything there's a disco change?
[00:38:34] <spike> albert: i'm sure he does. But most of this stuff can be found in the wiki you know
[00:38:35] deucalion will do a rebuild and try it again
[00:38:39] <deucalion> +gdb
[00:38:56] <spike> Norman: hmm ?
[00:38:58] <Kola> Norman: i happen to see: "Psi 0.11-dev (Jun 18 2006) / Windows XP" on mine
[00:38:58] Florob is off
[00:39:04] <Fritzy> too much talk of pizza.
[00:39:06] Florob leaves the room
[00:39:07] <Fritzy> I'll be back.
[00:39:08] gfa leaves the room
[00:39:11] <Fritzy> /leave
[00:39:12] <Norman@Home> Kola: ahh, try 0.11 :-P
[00:39:13] <Fritzy> /quit
[00:39:14] <マチェック> albert: what would you like to know?
[00:39:19] <spike> Fritzy: touch'e
[00:39:23] Fritzy leaves the room
[00:39:27] <deucalion> :>
[00:39:37] <deucalion> you know... irc shortcuts WOULD be pretty handy... ;)
[00:39:52] <deucalion> but that might be done by a plugin :)
[00:39:55] <Kola> deucalion: i saw that somewhere
[00:40:00] <Norman@Home> spike: also maybe add a item count to the affiliation grouping,
[00:40:05] Skaarj/ joins the room
[00:40:09] <Norman@Home> spike: yegh, again, maybe depending on roster rewrite
[00:40:10] <albert> Like what he looks forward to the most and why.
[00:40:10] <spike> Norman: you already said that
[00:40:16] <deucalion> Kola: I think there even was something JEPalike floating around for it... yes
[00:40:16] <spike> Norman: most probably
[00:40:19] <infiniti> it happens often enough though that we should at least catch '/' and give an error to the user rather than sending
[00:40:46] <Norman@Home> even having it on the heading for now would help with the room memeber count
[00:40:48] <spike> true, but then how do you send a '/' ?
[00:40:56] <Norman@Home> /
[00:40:57] <spike> that always frustrated me on irc :)
[00:40:57] <Kola> ctrl-enter
[00:41:04] <Norman@Home> /
[00:41:08] <spike> yeah, but i can see pastes going wrong
[00:41:10] <spike> anyway
[00:41:10] <CarloKok> in irssi you can do //
[00:41:14] <spike> that's where we have options for
[00:41:19] <Kola> in mirc you hit ctrl-enter
[00:41:23] <Norman@Home> or just send it if you couldn't match it,
[00:41:24] <Norman@Home> like now
[00:41:25] <Kola> gaim you have options
[00:41:28] <iono> * |Kev| does //
[00:41:33] <iono> nope, you can't :)
[00:41:48] <Norman@Home> /commands should be matched using a plugin,
[00:41:52] Skaarj/ leaves the room
[00:41:58] <infiniti> Norman@Home: nah i'd say don't send it even if it doesn't match
[00:42:20] <Norman@Home> infiniti: then you block all lines that start with a /
[00:42:30] <CarloKok> typing /mr instead of /me shouldn't say /mr on the channel
[00:42:45] <spike> CarloKok: that's stretching it a bit :)
[00:42:46] <Norman@Home> but typing //anything should send /anything?
[00:42:54] JLP leaves the room
[00:43:03] <Kola> then how do you send 2?
[00:43:06] <Kola> ////?
[00:43:09] <CarloKok> spike: I meant like everything that starts with / is a command, // is /
[00:43:10] <infiniti> ///
[00:43:10] <CarloKok> ///
[00:43:15] <Kola> lol
[00:43:17] iono //
[00:43:23] <CarloKok> that's how it's on irssi at least
[00:43:24] <spike> \/
[00:43:28] <Kola> who is iono?
[00:43:31] <deucalion> a bot ;)
[00:43:35] <iono> Britney Spears
[00:43:38] <Kola> is it still a bot?
[00:43:39] <deucalion> or that
[00:43:49] <deucalion> Kola: a very advanced AI
[00:43:57] <spike> iono: are you advanced ?
[00:44:05] <iono> yes and i wont stop till my tongue bounces off!
[00:44:06] <deucalion> I'd say so..
[00:44:07] <Kola> as i said before... it always freaks me out
[00:44:18] johnlu joins the room
[00:44:21] <Kola> iono you freak me out, stop it
[00:44:27] <CarloKok> ctrl+enter would work just as fine
[00:44:29] <iono> no
[00:44:40] Kola stabs iono with a large bass
[00:44:45] <CarloKok> as long as typo's like /qyit would'nt write it :)
[00:44:45] iono stabs Kola
[00:44:57] <Kola> doesn't /me send as a litteral "/me"
[00:45:03] <CarloKok> afaik not
[00:45:04] <deucalion> /me
[00:45:04] <Norman@Home> Kola: yea it does
[00:45:07] <CarloKok> it does?
[00:45:11] <Kola> yea
[00:45:13] Norman@Home tests
[00:45:15] <Kola> its faked
[00:45:16] <deucalion> heh
[00:45:17] <Norman@Home> <message type="groupchat" id="ac61a" to="psi@conference.jabber.ru" >
<body>/me tests</body>
</message>
[00:45:20] <CarloKok> ouch
[00:45:26] <Kola> its translated by the client
[00:45:35] <Kola> so like google talk client does not translate it
[00:45:36] deucalion tests /me again
[00:45:38] <deucalion> mmmmh
[00:45:46] johnlu leaves the room
[00:46:01] <CarloKok> is there anything like irc actions in the jabber protocols ?
[00:46:06] <Kola> idoubt it
[00:46:18] <マチェック> CarloKok: you mean kick, ban, etc?
[00:46:19] <spike> CarloKok: what do you mean ?
[00:46:20] <Norman@Home> the jep recommends sending /me
[00:46:26] <spike> indeed
[00:46:34] <spike> and all the others as well
[00:46:36] <CarloKok> ah ke
[00:46:49] <Norman@Home> kick/ban/invite/voice are all done via xmpp
[00:46:53] <CarloKok> spike: on irc it's like \001ACTION\001is feeling bored
[00:47:00] <Norman@Home> whois=vcard
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[00:47:19] <Kola> /join ?
[00:47:28] <Kola> :)
[00:47:34] <Norman@Home> erm, presence
[00:47:35] <iono> =D
[00:47:36] <spike> http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0045.html#impl-client-irc
[00:47:37] <Kola> /help
[00:47:38] <Norman@Home> /list via disco
[00:47:44] <Kola> there needs a /help
[00:48:25] <Norman@Home> /help = see webpage :-p
[00:48:41] <Norman@Home> or load local help file :-P
[00:48:58] <Kola> well whatever..
[00:49:10] <Kola> does Psi have an offical logo?
[00:49:15] <spike> Kola: not yet
[00:49:23] <spike> Kola: we're waiting on the designer to finish the logo
[00:50:12] <Kola> if i build with mingw and do the package... can i zip up that folder and distribute it without anyother dependencies?
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[00:52:55] <マチェック> qt dlls plus mingw dll (I think)
[00:53:09] <Kola> but they should be in the dir alreayd right?
[00:53:15] <マチェック> get beta2 zip and check what's inside
[00:53:21] <Kola> so is ther anything outside of the dir that one would need...
[00:53:50] <mblsha> yeah, qca-tls could reqire ssl dll's
[00:54:05] <Kola> those should already be there
[00:55:27] <psz> マチェック: mingw compile native code, so no dlls are needed apart from qca and qt of course ;)
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[00:56:28] <マチェック> psz: ask remko or infinity about compiling jdns - it tooks some time to eliminate mingw's dll
[00:57:17] <psz> マチェック: maybe i'll do it, but i don't have time ;)
[00:58:05] <infiniti> well you always end up with that one for threading
[00:58:39] <infiniti> although i'd imagine if you get the source to it you could build it in statically
[00:58:52] <spike> infiniti: so we have an extra dll ?
[00:59:00] <infiniti> right
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[01:11:34] <Kola> i hate my mouse at work...
[01:11:44] <Kola> i think its cramping up my hand
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[01:12:43] <Kola> brb
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[01:19:50] <badlop> halr9000 or anybody else: will you index the questions, attach direct links to muc log and publish that list somewhere? example:
1. Brad F from Livejournal: "When can Psi interopate with Jingle on all 3 platforms?"
http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/2006/06/21.html#23:05:52
2. ...
[01:20:06] <deucalion2> ok
[01:20:11] <deucalion2> it _still_ is crashing
[01:20:13] <deucalion2> ASSERT: "!isEmpty()" in file /usr/include/qt4/QtCore/qlist.h, line 222
Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
[Switching to Thread -1501010240 (LWP 20488)]
0xa6f3f7c7 in raise () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
[01:20:21] <spike> higher ?
[01:20:30] <spike> is there a backtrace ?
[01:20:47] deucalion2 goes on reading on how to do that
[01:20:49] <IceRAM> SIGABRT don't have backtraces I think
[01:20:50] <spike> 'bt'
[01:20:57] <spike> yeah, i hate those ASSERTs
[01:21:03] <deucalion2> mmh
[01:21:11] <IceRAM> it could be like SIGPIPEs...
[01:21:14] <deucalion2> it happens when I try to talk in a moderated room as visitor..
[01:21:21] <deucalion2> (with psi trunk)
[01:21:24] <spike> deucalion2: what room are you in ?
[01:21:29] <deucalion2> psi-testing :)
[01:21:31] <IceRAM> deucalion: type "bt" at the gdb primpt
[01:21:41] <spike> deucalion: jabber.ru ?
[01:21:45] <deucalion2> yes
[01:22:00] <deucalion2> IceRAM, wow... I get a lot from that :)
[01:22:07] <IceRAM> oh.. GREAT
[01:22:09] <IceRAM> good
[01:22:13] <IceRAM> now..
[01:22:14] deucalion2 pastes it at some paste page
[01:22:18] <IceRAM> try "bt full"
[01:22:27] <IceRAM> it is better than bt
[01:22:30] <deucalion2> yikes
[01:22:32] <deucalion2> wow
[01:22:33] <deucalion2> :)
[01:22:39] <IceRAM> includes variables
[01:22:44] <deucalion2> k
[01:22:47] <IceRAM> and their values
[01:23:23] <IceRAM> hmm.. seems like SIGABRT is like a segfault afterall
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[01:25:35] <badk> am I late? hehe
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[01:26:02] <deucalion2> http://paste.debian.net/7858
[01:26:04] <deucalion2> :)
[01:26:24] <NoAlWin> badk: you can read the logs
[01:26:29] <deucalion2> oh
[01:26:31] <deucalion2> there's even more
[01:26:41] <deucalion2> *scratching head*
[01:26:53] <deucalion2> is there a more elegant way, like piping the bt to a textfile?
[01:27:54] <IceRAM> IDEs usually communicate directly with GDB
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[01:28:10] <IceRAM> and make the output look pretty...
[01:28:19] <IceRAM> like.. watch windows, call traces etc.
[01:28:39] <IceRAM> looks like a missing test... "what if userlist is empty"
[01:28:51] <deucalion2> mh
[01:28:53] <IceRAM> once again deucalion2, how did you manage to crash Psi?
[01:29:26] <deucalion2> IceRAM, I simply tried to write a message in a moderated room where I was visitor
[01:29:37] <spike> deucalion: you didn't enable plugins, did you ?
[01:29:43] <deucalion2> mmh....
[01:29:46] <spike> deucalion: grrrr
[01:29:50] <spike> :)
[01:29:50] <deucalion2> ew...
[01:30:00] <deucalion2> ewwwwww....
[01:30:09] <spike> i'll ask kev to fix that bug
[01:30:09] <IceRAM> and the answer is....
[01:30:11] deucalion2 disables them quickly
[01:30:22] <IceRAM> you've been warned
[01:30:35] deucalion2 nods
[01:30:47] deucalion leaves the room
[01:31:00] <hawke > heh
[01:31:04] <deucalion2> but
[01:31:09] <iono> =D
[01:31:15] <deucalion2> I'll try a backtrace with kdevelop
[01:31:23] <deucalion2> bt full or sth like that :)
[01:31:46] <deucalion2> btw... what IDE do you psi devs use (if any)
[01:32:02] <spike> deucalion2: don't forget that disabling plugins requires a 'make clean'
[01:32:07] <spike> deucalion2: i use none :)
[01:32:09] <deucalion2> spike, sure
[01:32:16] <spike> the rest neither i think
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[01:32:27] <mblsha> deucalion2: TextMAte
[01:32:30] <deucalion2> I always do a make clean; sudo ldconfig; before I do any configure
[01:32:39] <IceRAM> I'm no dev, but I also don't use an IDE
[01:32:52] <IceRAM> I use Kate though for editing :D
[01:32:56] deucalion2 thinks that vim7 is a great thing, with autocompletion etc :)
[01:32:57] <mblsha> deucalion2: but it's not an IDE ;)
[01:33:03] <IceRAM> correction: I'm no Psi dev
[01:33:16] <deucalion2> oh well... s/psi devs/devs etc in here/ ;)
[01:33:43] <mblsha> deucalion2: well, that's a good question for next formal meeting ;)
[01:34:06] <IceRAM> it's pretty difficult to wrap GDB
[01:34:11] <IceRAM> and make it look good...
[01:34:27] <IceRAM> as the Visual Studio debugger for example
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[01:34:51] <IceRAM> I'm still waiting for the perfect qt4 ide
[01:35:07] <IceRAM> in which I could compile Psi on all platforms
[01:35:16] <mblsha> i'm learning to use gdb efficiently from command line
[01:36:13] <IceRAM> hmm.. DevQt
[01:36:21] <IceRAM> didn't know this exists... version 0.2.1
[01:37:07] <マチェック> and I managed to create a visual cpp project for psi (not so perfect, but at least I can work rather easily)
[01:38:03] <mblsha> マチェック: it's as easy as typing "qmake" with a couple of parameters ;)
[01:38:33] <マチェック> mblsha: as far as I can remember, it didn't work for you nor me in qt3 times
[01:38:44] <マチェック> and I tried again now and I was not so happy again
[01:39:24] <IceRAM> all I want from an IDE: syntax highlight, code completion, keyboard shortcuts, integrated terminal
[01:39:29] <mblsha> マチェック: at least i was able to compile psi that way
[01:39:31] <IceRAM> the last one is not important
[01:39:58] <mblsha> IceRAM: good text editor is the most important part IMO ;)
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[01:40:41] <LRN> just compiled Psi. For some reason, output executable is located in src/debug/ , and it weights 60Mb 8-/
[01:40:46] badk leaves the room
[01:40:59] <LRN> And doesn't works of course :)
[01:41:01] deucalion2 is now known as deucalion
[01:41:15] deucalion is now known as deucalion_gajim :)
[01:41:33] <マチェック> LRN: what compiler?
[01:41:41] <IceRAM> mblsha: tat too
[01:41:50] <IceRAM> that too
[01:41:52] <LRN> mingw
[01:42:11] <IceRAM> mine has 59MB on linux
[01:42:17] <IceRAM> so.. I think that's acceptable
[01:42:42] <LRN> it is possible to make release, not debug?
[01:42:58] <IceRAM> isn't there strip for windows?
[01:43:00] <IceRAM> I mean...
[01:43:10] <deucalion_gajim :)> why would that make sense if you use a development release..=
[01:43:14] <IceRAM> there must be
[01:43:19] <IceRAM> /mnt/win/Dev-Cpp/mingw32/bin/strip.exe
[01:43:21] <IceRAM> I have it here
[01:43:34] <IceRAM> strip.exe psi.exe
[01:43:40] <IceRAM> will make your psi executable small
[01:43:47] <IceRAM> make a backup copy of Psi before
[01:43:56] <IceRAM> the big Psi executable is good for debugging
[01:43:57] <LRN> damn
[01:44:08] <LRN> i already stripped it :)
[01:44:25] <IceRAM> well, I don't think it'll take much compiling it again
[01:44:34] <IceRAM> qmake will only link the object files
[01:44:37] <IceRAM> which are not stripped
[01:44:45] <IceRAM> and create a new big Psi.exe
[01:44:45] <LRN> What a relief!
[01:47:16] <ALok> i was thinking of starting my own nightly builds...
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[01:55:25] <deucalion_gajim :)> ok
[01:55:41] <deucalion_gajim :)> plugins thingie really is too crashy... *waiting for rebuild to finish*
[01:55:52] <deucalion_gajim :)> oh... and is * always for bold?
[01:56:04] <deucalion_gajim :)> having it like on irc would be rather comfortable..
[01:56:09] Anti-XP leaves the room
[01:56:13] <halr9000> So how'd it go?
[01:56:15] <hawke > Sometimes it means "all files" ;-)
[01:56:30] Neustradamus leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[01:57:34] deucalion_gajim :) is now known as deucalion/testing
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[01:58:05] <spike> halr9000: very well
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[01:59:30] <halr9000> awesome
[01:59:39] <halr9000> i have about...600 messages to read
[01:59:56] <IceRAM> don't worry
[01:59:59] <IceRAM> you know everything
[02:00:01] <IceRAM> :)
[02:00:03] <halr9000> badlop made a good suggestion, summarize things in a blog post, refer the chatlog url
[02:00:07] <iono> =D
[02:00:10] <IceRAM> except for.. ~50 lines
[02:00:15] <halr9000> e.g. http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/2006/06/21.html#23:05:52
[02:00:36] <halr9000> my eyes have somewhat returned to normal
[02:00:49] <mblsha> halr9000: wow, that's quick
[02:01:07] <halr9000> still a bit sensitive
[02:01:08] <mblsha> they have these drops in russia, they have a pretty long effect
[02:01:23] <halr9000> few yrs ago i think they started using shorter effect ones
[02:01:54] Neustradamus joins the room
[02:02:14] <halr9000> so it was moderated?
[02:02:18] <IceRAM> afair, it lasts a few hours
[02:02:21] <mblsha> yeah
[02:02:26] <halr9000> did that go well?
[02:02:30] <halr9000> the "mechanics"
[02:02:32] <IceRAM> yes... it's like screaming to walls :D
[02:02:47] <IceRAM> it looked pretty neat though
[02:02:53] Niek leaves the room
[02:03:15] <halr9000> haha
[02:03:18] <IceRAM> as you can see from the logs... the discussion flowed well because of no noise
[02:04:07] <IceRAM> there was somebody once which interrupted the discussion though.. saying it can't stay because he doesn't see well...
[02:04:21] <halr9000> lol
[02:04:27] <IceRAM> :)
[02:04:35] <iono> =]
[02:04:46] <halr9000> haha
[02:04:57] <IceRAM> one or two minor misunderstandings...
[02:05:02] <IceRAM> but.. it went well...
[02:05:05] <IceRAM> seriously
[02:05:16] <IceRAM> we didn't get an answer for "when's the next"
[02:05:31] <mblsha> after SoC ;)
[02:05:31] <IceRAM> and set everyone to follow the planet :)
[02:05:39] <IceRAM> oh.. missed that line
[02:07:01] <bear> I didn't see my question answered - didn't know if he just ran out of time or what
[02:07:23] <hawke > bear: I thought it was...
[02:07:38] <IceRAM> bear: what was the question
[02:07:40] <bear> oh! - did I miss it ?
[02:08:22] <Kev> many question's weren't answered
[02:08:31] <bear> I am looking for something to act as a jabber back-end for some code - I don't want a library per-se but may have to use one
[02:08:42] <bear> Kev: I figured that was the case
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[02:09:20] <IceRAM> bear: I don't think there's such thing
[02:09:22] <bear> my thought was that if I can run Psi headless and then communicate to it using a plugin
[02:09:41] ALok leaves the room
[02:09:44] <IceRAM> could be
[02:09:58] <bear> I figured I would need to wait for the plugin code to stabilize
[02:10:00] <Kev> in answer to the question
[02:10:01] ALok joins the room
[02:10:07] <Kev> you can't run psi headless
[02:10:10] <IceRAM> you would have to first define a protocol extension to encapsulate your data
[02:10:37] <halr9000> so what are you trying to do?
[02:10:50] <halr9000> i'm not sure why you need a full client, why you wouldn't use a library instead
[02:11:00] <IceRAM> IBB could help
[02:11:05] <IceRAM> !jep 74
[02:11:06] <psidekick> IceRAM: JEP-0074: Simple Access Control:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0074.html
[02:11:13] <IceRAM> grr..
[02:11:16] <IceRAM> !jep 47
[02:11:17] <psidekick> IceRAM: JEP-0047: In-Band Bytestreams (IBB):
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0047.html
[02:11:32] <halr9000> !wiki IceRAM_Cannot_Type
[02:11:40] <halr9000> kev!
[02:11:40] <psidekick> halr9000: IceRAM Cannot Type - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/IceRAM_Cannot_Type
[02:11:44] <halr9000> oh there it goes
[02:11:50] <bear> I have a tool written in python that is already chock full of UI items and other stuff - I was looking for something that I could open a pipe to and communicate with it and not worry about the messy details of talking to a jabber server or proxy
[02:12:10] <halr9000> why not use a python library...
[02:12:20] <halr9000> seems you'd have the most control that way
[02:12:31] <IceRAM> http://xmpppy.sourceforge.net/
[02:12:32] <bear> when I looked earlier in the year the python library situation was buggy at best
[02:12:41] <IceRAM> grab the sample code
[02:12:44] realm leaves the room
[02:13:05] <bear> yea - I started with xmppy, got the sample code, had it not work, fixed it, had it not work with jabberd2, fixed that, .....
[02:13:10] <マチェック> or pyxmpp
[02:13:21] <IceRAM> what did you do to it
[02:13:31] <IceRAM> I mean.. what did you try to change
[02:13:35] <bear> the above is what I was trying to avoid :) - but it seems I will have to go revisit the library idea again
[02:13:57] <bear> I didn't try to change anything - I was trying to connect the sample code to an install of jabberd2
[02:14:13] <IceRAM> try wildfire
[02:14:27] <IceRAM> it's usually easier to set up (as far as I've heard)
[02:14:32] <bear> xmppy at the time was having trouble connecting to it in a nonSASL manner IIRC
[02:14:36] <IceRAM> actually, I used it too.. with xmpppy
[02:15:05] <bear> but that was a while ago - I just asked because I happen to be in the channel when the dev QA session started :)
[02:15:51] <IceRAM> I am sure that it would be fairly easy to write a blocking protocol over jabber
[02:15:55] <IceRAM> using IQs
[02:16:01] <halr9000> what about this one http://pyxmpp.jabberstudio.org/api/
[02:16:09] <IceRAM> (since they require ACKs)
[02:16:10] <halr9000> that machekku mentioned
[02:16:24] <mblsha> IceRAM: which library does gajim use?
[02:16:35] <IceRAM> mblsha: I have no idea
[02:16:52] <IceRAM> it is a python-gtk project
[02:16:57] <IceRAM> there might be something in gtk too
[02:17:04] <mblsha> IceRAM: gtk is not related to xmpp :)
[02:17:05] <IceRAM> don't know
[02:17:14] <IceRAM> well, I'm not sure they use a lib
[02:17:22] <bear> sounds like I need to revisit the library option, get some hard facts and then start filing bugs :)
[02:17:23] <IceRAM> I mean.. it's not difficult to parse XML
[02:17:24] <halr9000> man this pyxmpp has everything
[02:17:27] <mblsha> i thought it was xmpppy
[02:17:37] <halr9000> reading the method list
[02:17:49] <mblsha> halr9000: the more, the merrier?
[02:17:55] <halr9000> :)
[02:18:19] <IceRAM> halr9000: have you seen xmpppy API?
[02:18:24] <IceRAM> http://xmpppy.sourceforge.net/apidocs/index.html
[02:18:26] <halr9000> its xmpp compliant, has MUC, SASL, SRV
[02:18:30] <halr9000> just missing pubsub & pep
[02:18:44] <IceRAM> well.. now that I think of it... I have no idea which one I would choose
[02:18:46] <halr9000> have now
[02:18:53] <マチェック> and who is the author of pyxmpp? my SoC mentor, hehe :)
[02:19:02] <IceRAM> xmpppy is used by the transports, right?
[02:19:19] <マチェック> IceRAM: there is irc transport written in pyxmpp
[02:19:30] <IceRAM> マチェック: was this project started before xmpppy?
[02:19:41] maxi leaves the room: Disconnected
[02:20:00] <マチェック> IceRAM: I don't know, because they both existed before I got interested
[02:20:26] <マチェック> you could try looking at old release dates, I guess
[02:20:39] <マチェック> also cjc client is written with pyxmpp
[02:20:50] <IceRAM> halr9000: pyxmpp doesn't have FT
[02:20:57] <IceRAM> xmpppy has IBB ft
[02:22:48] Marcho leaves the room
[02:24:09] <IceRAM> hmm.. xmpppy doesn't have muc
[02:24:18] <IceRAM> !version
[02:24:21] <ALok> why not use iris?
[02:24:43] <mblsha> ALok: you'll have to write C++ code :)
[02:24:52] <ALok> i dunno, just an idea
[02:25:03] <マチェック> ALok: I wanted once, I gave up after spending some time trying to compile the example ;)
[02:25:10] <mblsha> last time i tried to write a bot, i used ruby xmpp library
[02:25:23] <IceRAM> mblsha: how good is it?
[02:25:37] <mblsha> IceRAM: the bot? it's unfinished
[02:25:44] <IceRAM> the library
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[02:26:01] <mblsha> IceRAM: i think it could be made better :)
[02:26:09] <mblsha> nothing is ideal in this world
[02:26:41] <IceRAM> OMG
[02:27:09] <IceRAM> the SVN version of xmpp4r (ruby) has "basic" jep 0065 support
[02:27:23] <マチェック> pyxmpp 0.1: Jun 24 , 2003 - 02:06:44 am CDT
xmpppy 0.1.1: 2004-08-03 22:00 (I couldn't find 0.1)
[02:27:54] <bear> oh joy - pyxmpp.jajcus.net seems to be offline - and the ubuntu package for it fails to install because python-dnspython install errors out
[02:28:47] <マチェック> bear: maybe I have zipped 1.0 somewhere
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[02:29:26] <bear> do you know if jajcus.net is offline for long?
[02:29:45] <bear> I was assuming that if you know the author you may know why
[02:29:46] <マチェック> I opened it a second ago and it worked
[02:29:48] <マチェック> now stopped
[02:29:55] <マチェック> so maybe just temporarely
[02:30:05] <bear> cool - I'll just get back to work and try again later
[02:30:39] bear thanks the assembled people for letting him ask a off-the-wall question and getting back good responses and feedback
[02:31:56] <iono> It tasted like butter.
[02:32:11] <IceRAM> hmm.. norman is commiting to the yahoo transport
[02:32:14] <IceRAM> didn't know that
[02:32:19] <IceRAM> I've just seen the commits
[02:33:09] <マチェック> bear: http://machekku.uaznia.net/tmp/python-packages.tar.gz <- pyxmpp and dnspython
[02:33:36] <bear> thanks!
[02:34:34] <マチェック> aaa, just noticed, this are only lib files, with no readme and examples
[02:34:40] <halr9000> bear: anytime
[02:34:43] <マチェック> let me search again, but maybe I deleted already
[02:34:48] <mblsha> heh, there's bittorrent client in Qt examples :)
[02:34:50] NoAlWin leaves the room
[02:35:00] <IceRAM> yup
[02:35:05] <IceRAM> I've seen that
[02:35:08] <IceRAM> pretty nice
[02:35:34] <IceRAM> mblsha: do you know if Qt4 widget can be made "less bulky"
[02:35:48] <IceRAM> ever since switching to qt4 Psi got a bit bulkier
[02:36:00] <IceRAM> *widgets
[02:36:51] legoscia leaves the room
[02:37:12] <halr9000> any of y'all read that html chat design doc in the wiki? I had no idea there was somewhat of a standard emerging
[02:37:18] <halr9000> !wiki HTML_chat
[02:37:19] <psidekick> halr9000: HTML chat - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/HTML_chat
[02:37:45] <mblsha> IceRAM: what do you mean?
[02:38:42] <IceRAM> well.. all buttons seem to have A LOT of space around the text
[02:39:02] <IceRAM> halr9000: KHTML is pretty nice
[02:39:06] <IceRAM> I've looked into it once
[02:39:14] muehlbucks@mikes joins the room
[02:39:16] <IceRAM> specifically for this (extracting it)
[02:39:20] <IceRAM> it's a bit big
[02:39:22] <mblsha> IceRAM: i think it's a matter of active QStyle
[02:39:28] <IceRAM> but pretty powerfull
[02:39:47] <IceRAM> I'm enjoying the power of KHTML in Kopete
[02:39:49] <マチェック> bear: http://machekku.uaznia.net/tmp/mck-pyxmpp-1.0.0.zip <- consider this unofficial: I lost the tarball, so I packed the dir on my windows machine. but it should be the same as official
[02:40:10] <mblsha> IceRAM: maybe integrating WebKit back to Qt would be an easier task :)
[02:40:22] <bear> that will allow me to investigate - much thanks
[02:40:30] <Kev> halr9000: yes, I'd read that :p
[02:40:35] <IceRAM> well.. don't know
[02:40:50] <Kev> but yeah, it's nearly done
[02:40:52] <Kev> good stuff
[02:40:55] llama leaves the room
[02:41:05] <muehlbucks@mikes> how was the chat today?
[02:41:07] <muehlbucks@mikes> still goin?
[02:41:38] <マチェック> bear: echo component example is surprisingly really useful
[02:42:00] <マチェック> and if you need a "big" example, get cjc client (when the site is up again)
[02:42:04] <IceRAM> halr9000: this is the Kopete theme I use: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=36190
[02:42:08] <halr9000> Kev: Glad you are keeping up
[02:42:47] <halr9000> muehlbucks: they tell me it went well. I missed it. :(
[02:42:51] <IceRAM> it shows the real power of KHTML
[02:43:23] <muehlbucks@mikes> any big decisions made?
[02:43:59] <halr9000> IceRAM: very cool. that guy in the shots looks a bit odd tho
[02:44:57] <IceRAM> halr9000: actually, here's the Kopete Themes category on Kde-look: http://www.kde-look.org/index.php?xsortmode=high&page=0
[02:44:58] <halr9000> muehlbucks: yeah, we decided to cancel the project and start work instead porting AmigaOS to VMS
[02:45:07] <IceRAM> (sorted by rating)
[02:45:07] <muehlbucks@mikes> halr9000: lol
[02:45:24] <spike> muehlbucks: too many questions
[02:46:46] <IceRAM> Kev, what strategy did you apply in the end
[02:46:56] <IceRAM> I mean.. how did you handle the questions
[02:49:49] <halr9000> lol he's applying it now!
[02:49:58] <Kev> indeed
[02:50:06] <Kev> I pasted the ones I wanted to answer, ignored the rest
[02:50:20] <IceRAM> hmm.. pretty simple
[02:50:42] <bear> hehehe
[02:50:46] <IceRAM> and effective
[02:50:47] <halr9000> were there any q's that you have not answered that you think were deserving?
[02:50:49] <iono> :o)
[02:52:02] <Kev> yes
[02:53:36] <マチェック> Kev: and now people have full two months to prepare their questions ;)
[02:54:03] <Kev> yep
[02:54:40] <halr9000> oh you said another one in 2 mos?
[02:54:55] <halr9000> any significance to that number?
[02:55:02] <spike> end of SoC
[02:55:02] <マチェック> there is a suggestion to have next one after SoC results arrive
[02:56:43] <halr9000> makes sense
[02:57:17] <マチェック> spike: did you get my message?
[02:57:23] <spike> machekku: no
[02:57:33] <マチェック> hmm.. maybe this is the session that crashed
[02:57:49] <マチェック> I just noticed that my 2nd patch got commited
[02:57:54] <マチェック> but it date is different
[02:57:55] <spike> machekku: indeed
[02:57:59] <spike> machekku: indeed
[02:58:06] <spike> machekku: i took the liberty of modding some strings
[02:58:10] <マチェック> so I'm afraid what will happen when I pull it to my repository
[02:58:12] <spike> machekku: sorry for the conflicts ;)
[02:58:18] <spike> machekku: it will conflict as hell
[02:58:27] <マチェック> I guessed so
[02:58:30] <spike> machekku: can you unpull ?
[02:58:36] <spike> machekku: or is it too late ? :)
[02:58:43] <IceRAM> guys... I'm out... big (studying) day tomorrow
[02:58:48] <IceRAM> have fun around
[02:58:50] <halr9000> nn IceRAM
[02:58:52] <IceRAM> enjoy Psi as always
[02:58:54] <IceRAM> good night
[02:59:06] <マチェック> spike: luckily I thought about it before pressing "yes" :)
[02:59:12] <IceRAM> (ah.. I still can't see a usercount)
[03:00:38] IceRAM leaves the room
[03:01:35] <マチェック> spike: so if now I take today's mainline code, how can I easily pull my changes from another repo, which contains old version of that patch? (I guess that if I record there, darcs will want to pull my old errors-patch together with these changes)
[03:01:54] <spike> just say 'n' to your patch ?
[03:02:00] <spike> or do other patches depend on it ?
[03:02:23] <Florian> good night everone !
[03:02:50] <マチェック> hmm.. I'll see, maybe it's not so bad as I think :)
[03:03:33] <マチェック> or I could use diff like in the old times :)
[03:03:35] <halr9000> <マチェック> so I'm afraid what will happen when I pull it
<マチェック> you need a "big" example...is up again
[18:29:57] <マチェック> I opened it a second ago and it worked
[18:29:59] <マチェック> now stopped
[18:30:06] <マチェック> so maybe just temporarely
<spike> that would be grrreaaat
<マチェック> spike: yes
[03:03:42] <halr9000> You guys are sick
[03:04:08] <spike> you have a sick mind
[03:04:13] <halr9000> hahaha
[03:04:18] <マチェック> :)
[03:04:35] <halr9000> i spent way too much time on that
[03:04:57] <マチェック> halr9000: and they told you that you have problems with eyes? :D
[03:05:07] <マチェック> looks like this is sth else ;)
[03:06:53] c00i90wn leaves the room
[03:06:58] c00i90wn joins the room
[03:09:46] <マチェック> hmm.. dir containing compiled latest psi takes 100MB. I think it was about 60 in qt3 times. What doubled the size? Qt4? Or Remko's 1000 features? :)
[03:10:26] <halr9000> yeah don't complain. :)
[03:10:44] <マチェック> I'm not complaining :)
[03:10:45] <halr9000> マチェック: i need a macro for your name
[03:11:26] <マチェック> halr9000: get keyboard layout editor, assing マ to - let's say - AltGr + M, and then you can do simple "first letter + tab"
[03:12:08] <マチェック> how unlucky it has 5 characters, if it was 4, you could type all name with one button
[03:12:54] <mblsha> halr9000: all you need is a simple mind reader
[03:14:08] Florian leaves the room
[03:14:14] <マチェック> sample kbd layout from ms docs: http://machekku.uaznia.net/tmp/funny_keyboard.png :)
[03:15:49] TabTwo joins the room
[03:15:58] <psz> hmm... it seems preety like some nokia speed writing, t9 as i remember the name
[03:16:25] <TabTwo> psz: t9 is right
[03:16:27] <halr9000> mblsha: lol
[03:16:35] <マチェック> I think you can write a bit more using t9 ;)
[03:16:50] Pascal joins the room
[03:17:04] <psz> curious if some people could chat day by day by constructing such a layout in some way ;)
[03:17:29] TabTwo leaves the room
[03:17:39] <マチェック> psz: try :)
[03:18:19] <psz> you mean P as "<?php" and Shift-P as "?>" ? :)
[03:18:38] <psz> lego-style programming :D
[03:18:38] <マチェック> <?php is one char too long, sorry
[03:19:00] <psz> crappy m$ technology ;)
[03:19:06] <hawke > hmm, chording keyboard...
[03:19:31] <マチェック> psz: it was not designed to input words, but single characters
[03:19:59] <psz> right, characters not 4 of them ;)
[03:20:22] <マチェック> psz: are you aware of the existence of modifiers in unicode?
[03:20:57] <psz> i am, but i don't know if that has any meaning in here
[03:21:28] <マチェック> yes, because you may need - for example - to combine two codes to produce one real character
[03:21:47] <mblsha> ok, cya everyone :)
[03:21:53] <psz> nite
[03:22:37] <psz> マチェック: probably you're talking about accent modifiers in languages such as russian and japanese?
[03:23:01] <マチェック> where do you have accent modifiers in Japanese?
[03:23:27] <psz> i don't know, i improvize now :P you're the expert in that field :P
[03:23:58] <マチェック> I forgot the name of this language... wait
[03:25:49] <halr9000> mblsha: nn
[03:26:12] <halr9000> "english" is what I call it
[03:27:04] <マチェック> halr9000: you don't use modifier characters in English
[03:27:25] <psz> oh... it's getting hot! :)
[03:27:46] <hawke > psz: so take off all your clothes?
[03:28:34] <psz> hawke : funny ;)
[03:28:49] <iono> hawke : funny... hunny
[03:29:00] ALok takes off all his clothes
[03:29:01] <hawke > iono: yeah, thanks. :-p
[03:29:55] hawke leaves the room
[03:30:53] <マチェック> psz: do you still have winxp box somewhere around?
[03:31:12] spike leaves the room
[03:31:13] <psz> マチェック: i do still have.
[03:31:32] <マチェック> check keys on the left side of Tamil layout
[03:32:03] seanegan leaves the room
[03:32:24] <マチェック> or check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_script
[03:32:31] <マチェック> Tamil in Unicode
[03:32:42] <マチェック> see that chars with a dotted circle?
[03:33:16] <psz> yrp
[03:33:19] <psz> yep
[03:33:30] <マチェック> they don't exist alone
[03:33:41] <マチェック> you need to combine them with other ones, to form one real character
[03:33:58] <マチェック> it's like you'd use A + modifier char to get Ą
[03:34:45] <マチェック> "ogonek" character doesn't really mean anything itself
[03:34:46] <psz> so, assuming Windows is using UTF-16, the character is in real a 32-bit one
[03:35:35] <マチェック> I don't think you call it this way
[03:35:46] <マチェック> these are not surogates
[03:36:11] Joonas leaves the room
[03:36:16] <ALok> windows uses utf8
[03:36:20] <ALok> i belive
[03:36:25] <マチェック> no, utf16
[03:36:39] <ALok> well files are saveed in utf8 at least
[03:36:39] <マチェック> (NT line)
[03:36:49] <ALok> what nt line?
[03:36:56] <マチェック> NT, 2000, XP, ...
[03:36:57] <psz> ALok: windows internally uses UTF-16
[03:37:04] <ALok> ok...
[03:37:05] <ALok> i dunno
[03:37:11] <マチェック> and files names are in utf16, too
[03:37:16] <ALok> are they?
[03:37:20] <ALok> i thought they were utf8 too
[03:37:27] <psz> they were a long before Windows NT line
[03:37:41] <マチェック> as far as I can remember, utf16 everywhere
[03:37:49] <psz> think of Jouliet ISO extension
[03:38:04] <マチェック> so if you have ascii name, then it will look like there is a "space" before every character
[03:38:52] <psz> it's cleanly visible if you open some executables in text viewer which don't know Unicode or you can disable it, like Total Commander's builtin one
[03:39:12] <ALok> fat32 does not have a chat set i think
[03:39:15] <ALok> :)
[03:39:19] <ALok> it just uses whatever
[03:39:25] <halr9000> why when i switch firefox to utf-16 does it just freak out and spit out thousands of oriental characters?
[03:39:31] <マチェック> ALok: long filenames are stored in utf16 I think
[03:39:43] <ALok> well... fat32 is allowed to use whatever charset
[03:39:50] <ALok> so it can have sjis filenames
[03:39:53] <ALok> and anything really
[03:39:56] <Kev> I don't understand why my mac mini 'feels' nicer than my pb
[03:40:03] <Kev> when it's slower
[03:40:06] <Kev> the same os
[03:40:06] <ALok> cause mac mini is small?
[03:40:12] <Kev> same KB, same mouse
[03:40:13] <ALok> compensation in your mind?
[03:40:17] <psz> halr9000: in utf-16 if you use latin characters, most of them have the first byte set to 0
[03:40:19] <Kev> same monitor as the external on the pb
[03:40:29] <ALok> ram?
[03:40:31] <Kev> I think the colour of the video is better
[03:40:36] <ALok> ram can do tons
[03:40:47] <ALok> video color is adjustable
[03:41:04] <マチェック> halr9000: because it takes pairs of characters (2 bytes) and treats is as a code of one character. and oriental characters are at the "end" of the table (or rather: not at the beginning)
[03:41:07] <psz> halr9000:
[03:41:29] <psz> good explanation, congrats ;)
[03:42:03] <ALok> oriental? who are you calling oriental?
[03:42:07] <ALok> we are not rugs!
[03:42:13] <ALok> ;)
[03:42:20] <iono> ;)
[03:42:28] <psz> ALok: from where are you? :)
[03:42:33] <iono> what do you think?
[03:42:40] <Kev> both are half a gig
[03:42:48] ALok lives in the US lol
[03:43:44] <psz> at the end of unicode table are some klingon chars afair :)
[03:44:02] <psz> at least in linux kernel
[03:44:08] <ALok> klingon is not offical i think...
[03:44:12] <ALok> its proposed or something
[03:44:25] <ALok> same with some tolkien chars too
[03:47:12] tony joins the room
[03:47:14] <psz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode#Trivia
[03:47:26] <tony> morning all
[03:47:27] <psz> here is some info about tolkien and klingon chars
[03:47:31] <Kev> blimey
[03:47:35] <Kev> morning tony :)
[03:47:38] <halr9000> howdy tony
[03:47:46] <tony> blimey indeed, look how this has taken off since I was last here
[03:47:49] <halr9000> you missed the party
[03:47:56] <tony> I know it was at 5am my time
[03:48:04] <halr9000> so?
[03:48:04] <マチェック> psz: rejected: http://www.unicode.org/alloc/rejected.html
[03:48:09] <Kev> we had 50 visitors
[03:48:13] <tony> *inserts punctuation in his last sentence*
[03:48:13] <Kev> not counting the bots or the devs
[03:48:29] <psz> yeah, i see it
[03:48:41] <halr9000> hi iono
[03:48:46] <iono> -_-
[03:48:56] <halr9000> iono: are you sad?
[03:49:02] <iono> Yes.
[03:49:04] <iono> Wait! i mean no. the precious.
[03:49:09] <halr9000> :D
[03:49:13] <ALok> iono has multiple personalities
[03:49:15] <ALok> right?
[03:49:23] <ALok> <.<
[03:49:24] <ALok> >.>
[03:49:45] <ALok> CW
[03:49:48] Pascal leaves the room
[03:49:51] <tony> I like how hal and kev are marked XA on my roster, yet are perfectly Available here :-P
[03:50:51] <Kev> I was getting a lot of messages after the chat
[03:51:00] <マチェック> tony: maybe they are hiding from you ;)
[03:51:04] <tony> anyway Hal. MUC invite seems to work for me... but Qunu invites don't
[03:51:25] <ALok> lol tony
[03:51:33] <tony> perhaps I can only get groupchat invites from people on my roster
[03:51:37] <ALok> tony: what net work you on?
[03:51:40] <hawke> tony -- you on gmail?
[03:51:49] <tony> no
[03:52:05] <ALok> tony is quser.alpha.qunu.com on your roster?
[03:52:17] <tony> yes. you can search for 'flyspray' on qunu and get me
[03:52:58] ALok also invites you to alpha@muc.alpha.qunu.com
[03:53:55] <tony> try it
[03:54:40] <tony> you're crap, hal. ALok invited me to Qunu
[03:55:07] <tony> ...and it worked
[04:00:39] <tony> ping
[04:00:48] <マチェック> pong
[04:01:11] <tony> well, somehow I managed to kill the conversation, so I'll get the hell out of the channel now
[04:01:15] <tony> *waves*
[04:01:15] <マチェック> Kev: you could teach psidekick to reply to pings :)
[04:01:34] <ALok> iono: ping!
[04:01:34] tony leaves the room
[04:01:41] <ALok> :(
[04:01:49] <psz> iono: do you ping?
[04:01:55] <iono> any chance i get uNf
[04:01:56] <iono> Yes... wait a minute... no.
[04:02:04] <psz> heh
[04:03:05] <ALok> iono is stupid
[04:06:50] <Kev> you can ignore him if you wish
[04:07:08] <ALok> how? is there an ignore feature?
[04:07:08] muehlbucks@mikes leaves the room
[04:07:18] <Kev> xmpp privacy, yes
[04:07:27] <Kev> oh, hrmm
[04:07:34] <Kev> will that help ignoring members of a muc?
[04:07:37] <Kev> I guess not
[04:07:46] <マチェック> can you block a full jid?
[04:07:52] <マチェック> if yes, then it should work
[04:08:04] <psz> i was going to ask the same question
[04:09:45] ALok leaves the room
[04:09:46] <halr9000> I love iono
[04:10:03] ALok joins the room
[04:10:10] <psz> it's like a pet, right?
[04:10:11] <ALok> stupid 100% cpu
[04:10:20] <Kev> psz: very much :)
[04:10:24] <Kev> iono: are you a smart pet?
[04:10:31] <iono> yes and i wont stop till my toe bounces off!
[04:10:32] <Kev> loyal?
[04:10:35] <halr9000> ALok: remove your event notifier toolbar
[04:10:36] <iono> Woah cool, let me try that!
[04:10:40] <ALok> I DID
[04:10:54] <ALok> actlly
[04:10:56] <halr9000> i did, and it happened once more after that.
[04:11:00] <ALok> is it the tool bar
[04:11:00] <halr9000> but since then, not anymore
[04:11:04] <halr9000> and i have tons of msgs queued now
[04:11:09] <ALok> is it the tool bar?
[04:11:12] <halr9000> yes
[04:11:13] <ALok> or the notified?
[04:11:16] <ALok> notifier?
[04:11:20] <Kev> the toolbar
[04:11:22] <halr9000> get rid of the whole thing
[04:11:24] <Kev> it needs to be deleted
[04:11:30] <ALok> can i put the notifier on the top bar?
[04:11:39] <Kev> toolbars are broken
[04:11:39] <halr9000> when i thought about it i actually never clicked on the notifier anyway
[04:11:49] <マチェック> anyone familiar with FedEx tracking system? I wanted to check if google sent my package to the right address, but the only address-like thing I see is city and country name...
[04:12:02] <halr9000> 80% of the stuff i have set to popup, the rest stay on teh tray icon where i see them there
[04:12:02] <ALok> thats normal
[04:12:07] <Kev> machekku: I received mine :)
[04:12:20] <マチェック> Kev: did it display your address anywhere?
[04:12:29] <Kev> nafair
[04:12:45] <ALok> nice... event notifier in the top toolbar
[04:13:53] <ALok> also creates 100% cpu usage...
[04:13:54] <ALok> o well
[04:13:57] <ALok> remove it time...
[04:13:57] <マチェック> Kev: I'm just afraid that there will be nobody home when it arrives... what happens then?
[04:14:05] <halr9000> ttyl guys
[04:14:11] <ALok> it wither goes back to fedex
[04:14:16] <ALok> and they will try again
[04:14:17] <halr9000> oh btw i will be summaraizing the questions in the chat and posting later
[04:14:23] <ALok> or they will leave it at the door
[04:14:26] <ALok> or in the bushes
[04:14:29] halr9000 waves
[04:14:32] <halr9000> bye iono
[04:14:40] <マチェック> ok, we'll see
[04:14:47] <ALok> if it goes back to fedex you can go there and get it...
[04:14:53] <ALok> or they will try again the next day
[04:15:06] <psz> i suggest to dial them
[04:15:20] halr9000 leaves the room: Logged out
[04:15:39] <psz> they should be able to arrabge the delivery time with you
[04:16:16] <ALok> no they can;'t
[04:16:22] <ALok> drivers are lazy
[04:23:07] <Kev> hopefully something like http://kismith.co.uk/psi/devchat-210606.html now has the slightly abridged version of the chat log for the devchat
[04:28:47] Astro joins the room
[05:06:26] c00i90wn leaves the room
[05:10:32] c00i90wn joins the room
[06:04:06] マチェック leaves the room: Logged out
[06:08:19] <VxJasonxV> wow
[06:08:23] <VxJasonxV> the conference stops and the chat dies?
[06:08:24] <VxJasonxV> sad
[06:09:00] <Astro> does it?
[06:09:06] <VxJasonxV> It did
[06:10:20] <Astro> well
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[07:51:15] <VxJasonxV> wow
[07:51:15] <VxJasonxV> this chat died for serious
[07:51:24] <hawke> hehe
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[09:28:23] <G-Lo> hello everybody
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[09:43:31] <VxJasonxV> Bye everybody.
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[11:54:23] <Norman> bear: xmpp.py is a lot more stable now that I've been at it :-)
[12:00:33] <LRN> Is there any news about JIT? I heard that author planned to release version 1.4.0 but that's all.
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[12:11:08] <Norman> JIT?
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[12:11:55] <Florian> hey, any devs here?
[12:12:09] <VxJasonxV> a few
[12:15:29] <Florian> i read about the New Status System ( http://psi-im.org/wiki/Status_System ) and i find it very intresting. will it be hard to code? would it be possible to add this feature in 0.11 ?
[12:15:36] <LRN> And what is "PhD"?
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[12:22:31] <LRN> remko, maybe you could answer?
[12:22:49] <legoscia> "doctor of philosophy"
[12:22:54] <LRN> Oh
[12:24:07] <LRN> Why philosophy? I thought the are technical specialists, not liberal ones
[12:25:08] <legoscia> yes, it is "philosophy" as opposed to law, politics, and medicine...
[12:25:16] <BartVB> no
[12:25:19] <BartVB> that's what it used to be
[12:25:32] <BartVB> (hundreds of years ago :D)
[12:25:52] <BartVB> nowadays you can do a PhD in just about any field of science or humanities
[12:26:08] <BartVB> Remko is doing a PhD in Artificial Intelligence (or something related to that :D)
[12:26:19] <BartVB> Kev is also doing something computer science related :)
[12:27:04] <BartVB> what a PhD is depends on the country where you are a PhD but normally it's something that you o after finishing your university education (masters)
[12:27:44] <BartVB> you do research (most of the times on your own) for several years (3 or 4 most of the time) and write a nice thesis about that
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[12:29:16] <Florian> any devs are listing?
[12:29:52] <Florian> i read about the New Status System ( http://psi-im.org/wiki/Status_System ) and i find it very intresting. will it be hard to code? would it be possible to add this feature in 0.11 ?
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[13:02:45] <Florian> anyone?
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[13:35:45] <LRN> mыsha, you're developer. Could you answer Florian's question?
Florian, i suggest you to ask on forum. Looks like after grand dev-chat there will be a few days of silence :)
[13:37:16] <Kev> LRN: I don't know why you'd say that
[13:37:23] <Kev> there wasn't silence before the dev chat
[13:37:38] <Kev> no, the status rewrite isn't due for 0.11
[13:38:15] <LRN> Well, say this to Florian :) My question was a little bit...different. But it was not related to Psi
[13:41:05] <Kev> and, I guess no-one has a clue about JIT
[13:41:17] <Kev> I think most people use the py* these days
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[13:45:29] <Norman> yea, the old c transports are out of fashion these days
[14:06:29] <LRN> You know, relying on something python-based...no, i don't trust it.
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[14:31:09] <Kev> I don't have any problem with python
[14:34:53] <Norman> LRN: heh, I have the same feeling about c,
[14:35:05] <Norman> in c if you bust something, the entire app crashes,
[14:35:16] <Norman> at least in python you can't segfault
[14:35:22] <Norman> (unless your openssl is stuffed)
[14:35:33] <Norman> bbl, reboot
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[15:46:59] <R.H> Anyone have experience with Wildfire? I'm having a problem getting 3.0.0 Beta to communicate with Gtalk.
[15:47:12] <remko> R.H: haven't run 3.0.0 beta
[15:47:29] <remko> R.H: i'm currently running 2.6, but have been using SVN for a while, and didn't really have gtalk problems
[15:47:40] <R.H> 3.0.0 is the first version i've actually managed to get working. ^_^
[15:48:03] <R.H> Been running Jabberd2 until today.
[15:48:06] <remko> R.H: really ? :) 2.6 ran out of the box last week :)
[15:48:22] <remko> R.H: what's the problem with google talk ?
[15:49:13] <R.H> It was a long time ago that i tried Wildfire, 2.2 i think and i caused massive load on the server (i'm on a user-mode linux process).
[15:49:27] <remko> R.H: i run wildfire on a Xen machine
[15:49:56] <R.H> But i thought i'd give it another go, and 3.0.0 is working fine (i'm using it right now to connect to this MUC) for everything except Google.
[15:50:14] <remko> R.H: did you check the logs what the problem with google is ?
[15:51:47] <R.H> I can't wrap my head around the Wildfire logs, but looking at the XML console in Psi from a gmail account trying to access my server i see a "server-not-found" error.
[15:52:38] <Kev> srv problem?
[15:52:39] <R.H> I'd think it was Google not looking up SRV records except i had exactly the same DNS setup yesterday. The only thing that's changed is i'm using Wildfire instead of Jabberd2.
[15:53:17] <remko> R.H: so you have SRV set up for your domain ?
[15:53:35] <R.H> Yeah, SRV is setup.
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[15:54:41] <remko> R.H: odd.
[15:54:50] <remko> R.H: maybe i'll upgrade my wildfire just to see :)
[15:56:04] <R.H> Heheh, 3.0.0 Beta seems quite nice. And the load on my UML process is idling at 0.0 instead of the 70 odd it hit when i last tried Wildfire!
[15:56:35] <remko> oh, i don't have any load problems
[15:57:22] <remko> but 2.2 is quite a bit earlier than 2.6 :D
[15:58:10] <R.H> It was probably a Java problem the last time rather than WF. I had to remove /lib/tls to be able to create a Java package on Debian today. I don't think i did that last time.
[15:59:36] <R.H> In WF can you specify a separate hostname from the domaiin it serves xmpp for?
[16:00:25] <R.H> I'm trying to run WF on a machine named host.domain.tld but serve xmpp for domain.tld.
[16:00:30] <remko> R.H: yeah
[16:00:44] <remko> R.H: it asks you on initial setup normally
[16:00:58] <remko> R.H: but you can modify it in the server properties pane i think
[16:01:02] <remko> sec, upgrading now :)
[16:03:46] <R.H> I don't seem to be able to do it. I can change the server name in the server properties, but then there's no way to change the root domain it serves. I tried changing xmpp.domain in System Properties, but that just resets the Server Name too.
[16:06:01] <remko> R.H: the 'server name' is the domain
[16:09:09] <remko> R.H: google seems to work fine here
[16:09:20] <R.H> So i can tell WF that the server name is domain.tld but run it on a machine that only has "A" records for host.domain.tld and it will work so long as SRV records for domain.tld are pointing towards host.domain.tld? WF doesn't have to know that it's running on host.domain.tld?
[16:10:59] <remko> R.H: that's what i'm doing
[16:11:11] <remko> R.H: there is no mention anywhere of the name of the host in my wildfire config
[16:11:26] <remko> R.H: and domian.tld points to a totally different machine
[16:11:40] <R.H> Strange. I must have a misconfiguration somewhere, but i can't think where it could be.
[16:11:40] <remko> i just have my SRV pointing to that machine, that's it
[16:14:11] <R.H> Ah. I'm looking at the debug logs in WF now and i see the following:
[16:14:20] <R.H> 2006.06.22 13:06:18 RS - Received dialback key from host: gmail.com to: host.domain.tld
[16:14:34] <R.H> 2006.06.22 13:06:18 RS - Error, hostname not recognized: host.domain.tld
[16:15:10] <R.H> I think WF isn't looking up the FQDN of the machine it's running on?
[16:15:18] <remko> that would surprise me
[16:15:30] <remko> because i have no problems with that
[16:15:51] <remko> R.H: but if you can tell me to test something, i can make sure (i'm no expert)
[16:17:21] <R.H> I'm no expert either! ^_^
[16:17:43] <remko> R.H: is your host mentioned anywhere in the server properties ?
[16:19:09] <R.H> No, just domain.tld. If i change it to the host.domain.tld i can no longer login to the server using user@domain.tld as my JID.
[16:19:47] <remko> well, if you use psi, you know you have to enter the hostname manually, right ?
[16:21:07] <R.H> Yeah. It's already setup that way since i was using exactly the same machine and DNS settings with Jabberd2 yesterday. The only difference between yesterday and today is the xmpp server software (and the lack of connection to Gtalk!).
[16:21:34] <remko> ah right :)
[16:22:39] <remko> sounds like there must still be some property with your host somewhere ?
[16:23:54] <R.H> Must be. Back to searching then. ;) Thanks for your help though, i think i'm a bit closer to a solution now.
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[17:06:53] <R.H> Solved the problem. Turned out to as detailed in this thread: http://www.jivesoftware.org/community/thread.jspa?messageID=122425
[17:07:41] <R.H> I had looked at it before, but thought it wasn't the problem. Stupid me. Thanks for your help remko.
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[17:32:21] <Kev> heh, that's a resource name and a half you've got there g-lo
[17:34:15] <G-Lo> too long?
[17:34:26] <Kev> I don't think there's any limit on length
[17:34:43] <Kev> I just haven't seen a resource quite that long before :)
[17:36:30] <G-Lo> it's because i had enough to tell my platform and jabberclient each time I connect somewhere :p
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[19:14:30] <remko> it sure is quiet in here
[19:15:59] <マチェック> remko: we need to keep the average, so this silence is not surprising after yesterday meeting ;)
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[19:18:19] <remko> true
[19:20:37] <Kev> I guess everyone who had much to say asked it yesterday :)
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[19:34:44] <Kola> is this normal? headline roster icon animtmaing when it does not have an animation, so it blink with a bacl square?
[19:37:49] <Kev> !wiki Qt4_Issues
[19:37:55] <psidekick> Kev: Qt4 Issues - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/Qt4_Issues
[19:38:09] <Kev> is that the right link, I wonder
[19:38:21] <Kola> it is
[19:38:23] <Kev> anyway, have a check on the wiki, I think that's listed
[19:39:05] <Kola> not sure if its there...
[19:39:57] <Kola> i don't know what it would be called
[19:40:00] <Kola> :(
[19:41:03] <Kola> yea i don't see anything like it...
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[19:45:58] <remko> kola: look better, it's there
[19:57:15] <マチェック> I have a question :)
[19:57:36] <マチェック> what is the future of status->invisible command, when we have privace lists now?
[19:57:48] <remko> there's still no good replacement
[19:57:54] <remko> there's a JEP in the inbox
[19:58:53] <マチェック> I'm asking because my xmpp-compatible server follows the rule "pass unknown presence type unchanged", which means: broadcast presence invisible as... presence invisible
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[20:07:05] <remko> machekku: what server is that ?
[20:08:08] <マチェック> jabber1 SVN, but it is very possible that handling presence invisible was commented out by the admin of chrome.pl, only on this one installation
[20:08:32] <miniKev> what a silly thing to do :)
[20:08:33] <マチェック> but I also suspect that latest ejabberd may be doing this
[20:09:11] <remko> i never used invisibility in my life ;)
[20:09:31] <miniKev> I'm not sure that many people do
[20:09:41] <miniKev> yet back when I coded it, it was a popular request
[20:09:44] <miniKev> no idea why
[20:10:23] <マチェック> miniKev: because some people are too stupid to understand what does DND mean - then you can protect yourself only via invisibility
[20:10:29] <zenek> I know quite a lot of people using it at least from time to time.
[20:10:44] <miniKev> I have used privacy rules a couple of times mind
[20:11:40] <マチェック> yup, ejabberd does this, too:
<presence from="machekku@jabber.autocom.pl/Psi10" type="invisible" to="machekku@chrome.pl/Ustronie" >
<priority>10</priority>
</presence>
[20:13:13] <マチェック> ejabberd 1.1.1
[20:13:28] <zenek> Oh damn, that's gonna break everything
[20:13:46] <remko> hehe yeah
[20:13:50] <マチェック> and in this case, I really don't think this is admin's mod
[20:13:53] <remko> wildfire also lets it through
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[20:14:48] <remko> that kind of makes you wonder if it's worth keeping the status set option around :\
[20:15:08] <マチェック> the worst think is that I'm using a quite old psi, and it displays incoming presence invisible as empty message dialog ;)
[20:15:21] <remko> machekku: wildfire removes the type
[20:15:33] <remko> haha, yeah, that *is* worse
[20:15:52] <remko> that's like sending a message "Guys, dont mind me, i'm not here actually"
[20:15:55] <miniKev> so not only is someone going invisible
[20:15:59] <マチェック> so I can tell you that 2 people in my roster use invisibility quite often
[20:15:59] <miniKev> going to still be visible
[20:16:09] <miniKev> but you get a big popup on your screen telling you so :D
[20:16:11] <remko> he's going to recall people that he's visible :)
[20:16:36] <マチェック> hmm... at last we can have a better use of invisible icon in the iconsets :D
[20:19:18] <miniKev> :)
[20:28:16] <マチェック> what other servers are there to check?
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[20:31:51] <miniKev> being without muc is so unkind
[20:32:06] <miniKev> (I'm also running an old build)
[20:32:35] <Kola> i would love it, if remko could "look better" for me and tell me where "it's there"
[20:32:48] <マチェック> miniKev: I am running "old" build, you are running "not latest" build ;)
[20:32:57] <miniKev> heh
[20:33:46] <miniKev> Kola: "#
# Icon drawing problems in contactlist"
[20:33:50] <マチェック> and the codebase is really much older than the compilation date in version string
[20:34:03] <Kola> "# ?
[20:34:06] <Kola> p
[20:34:08] <Kola> o
[20:34:09] <Kola> nm
[20:34:24] <Kola> that is so general
[20:34:25] <Kola> lol
[20:34:39] <miniKev> is your problem with icon drawing in the roster? :)
[20:34:42] <Kola> should just add cover all issues in the list
[20:34:48] <Kola> then nothing woul be your problem
[20:35:13] <Kola> i have not had any icon drawing problem ... except this...
[20:35:17] <Kola> so it seems to general
[20:35:43] <Kola> well whatever
[20:36:08] <Kola> /em goes back to... work
[20:36:15] <マチェック> sometimes there are problems with only "this one" something
[20:36:36] <マチェック> I remember that once I wanted to use one font for my roster, and "y" character was displayed somehow wrong
[20:36:46] <マチェック> but only this one character in this one font
[20:36:54] <Kola> ... but the "issue" is listed as being general
[20:37:13] <Kola> its sounds as if everyone has a differnt problem
[20:37:26] <Kola> that is a specific problem
[20:37:31] <Kola> and then is gernealized
[20:37:37] <Kola> rather than like finding the root cause
[20:37:45] <マチェック> maybe this depends on the iconset, or rather on particular icon
[20:37:47] <Kola> but its not my problem any more so i don't care
[20:37:57] <Kola> :)
[20:47:01] <remko> machekku: possible
[20:47:12] <remko> machekku: still, it wasn't there before, so it's Qt4 regression
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[21:25:05] <マチェック> psidekick: say something :)
[21:25:07] <psidekick> マチェック: Let's change focus a bit... Tell me about your family.
[21:25:25] <Kola> iono, attack psidekick
[21:25:33] <Kola> :(
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[21:53:55] <iono> Resistance is futile, you will be 0wn3d
[21:54:19] <Kola> Ohmed ?
[21:54:25] <iono> penguins
[21:54:34] <Kola> mints
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[22:43:56] <iono> ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
[22:45:41] <Norman> iono: what you say?
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[22:53:25] <remko> they set us up the bomb !
[22:56:20] <Norman> take off every zig,
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[23:07:23] <マチェック> remko: seen this version? http://www.pwned.nl/ayb/
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[23:21:10] <remko> hehe
[23:40:48] <Kola> actally remko its "they set up us the bomb"
[23:41:17] <Kola> everyone says "set us up" but it really says "set up us"
[23:45:48] <Kola> or wait.. i just realized what i said, it should be "somebody set up us the bomb"
[23:46:49] <hawke> yes
[23:46:49] <hawke> :-)
[23:47:04] <iono> -_-
[23:53:57] <Kola> iono... its all your fault
[23:54:58] <Kola> Norman: how many hits you get on your nightly builds?

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