Psi. Official chat for the Psi Jabber client (http://psi-im.org)

Wednesday, 21 June 2006< ^ >

Kev has set the subject to: Psi: Kicks for Communication (http://psi-im.org) | Room language: English | We often sleep, so if you don't get an answer immediately, hang around :) | Room logs now available at http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/

Room Configuration

GMT+4
[00:01:32] Matthias leaves the room
[00:07:05] c00i90wn leaves the room
[00:14:24] remko leaves the room
[00:14:45] c00i90wn joins the room
[00:20:34] remko joins the room
[00:24:17] badlop joins the room
[00:25:25] <badlop> hawke: what happened here, a bug in ejabberd, how did you triggered it? :S
http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/2006/06/20.html#21:19:07
[00:29:37] <remko> haha
[00:29:45] <remko> people were sending left-to
[00:29:54] <remko> i mean right-to-left unicode codes to the room
[00:30:02] <ALok-work> mmm that was fun
[00:30:08] <michalj> seems like someone has changed the normal order of writing words from LTR to RTL
[00:30:12] heapifyman joins the room
[00:30:23] <remko> it seems that it worked pretty well :)
[00:30:27] <michalj> yeah
[00:30:54] <ALok-work> it does not quite work in Psi
[00:31:01] <ALok-work> but it works in the webbrowser
[00:31:03] <heapifyman> hello
[00:31:17] <michalj> but it does work in Psi
[00:31:18] <ALok-work> ‮backwardsness?
[00:31:42] <ALok-work> what does that say?
[00:31:52] <michalj> at least it looked like it worked when I entered this MUC
[00:31:58] <ALok-work> hehe
[00:32:07] <ALok-work> yea, its problamatic...
[00:32:24] <michalj> I didn't care to try to decipher what they were trying to write :)
[00:33:01] <hawke> badlop: hmm?
[00:33:20] <hawke> lol -- oh
[00:33:22] <hawke> nice!
[00:33:37] <ALok-work> ?
[00:33:39] <ALok-work> bug?
[00:33:46] <badlop> i guess this should be prevented by the html logger
[00:33:50] <hawke> Yeah.
[00:33:53] <hawke> sounds like.
[00:34:01] <ALok-work> what are we talkig about?
[00:34:04] <badlop> but what is exactly to prevent?
[00:34:07] <heapifyman> can anyone recommend a reliable yahoo and/or aim transport?
[00:34:16] <badlop> ALok-work: you made unusuable the html logs of this chatroom
[00:34:23] <ALok-work> it works for me...
[00:34:26] <ALok-work> its fine
[00:34:32] <michalj> HTML and XHTML are prepared for dealing with RTL texts
[00:34:36] <hawke> badlop: well, the char I sent was the "RLO -- Right-to-left override"
[00:34:49] <hawke> ‭fix?
[00:34:50] <michalj> there is dir parameter for most textual tags
[00:34:56] <ALok-work> o lol
[00:34:57] <ALok-work> nm
[00:35:05] <ALok-work> it works in IE
[00:35:10] <ALok-work> i forgot i am at work
[00:35:22] <ALok-work> ‭fix it now!
[00:35:30] <ALok-work> now check the lines after that
[00:35:41] <ALok-work> o wait..
[00:35:45] <hawke> my fix fixed it.
[00:35:45] <ALok-work> it was alreayd fixed
[00:35:53] <ALok-work> ‮bleh
[00:36:22] <hawke> Wow, this hurts my brain
[00:36:29] <ALok-work> what does?
[00:36:34] <hawke> ‭fix
[00:36:47] <hawke> typing in right-to-left and left-to-right
[00:37:12] <ALok-work> ‬i wonder what this char does...
[00:37:13] <hawke> The timestamps a re nice too
[00:37:17] <hawke> which one's that?
[00:37:23] heapifyman leaves the room
[00:37:44] <ALok-work> pop dir
[00:37:44] <hawke> ‬
[00:37:52] <ALok-work> "PDF"
[00:38:03] <hawke> That one sets it to the previous direction
[00:38:08] <hawke> whatever it may have been
[00:38:21] <michalj> HTML browsers have no idea what the numbers mean, so they reverse the order they come in and separate them with colons
[00:38:30] <ALok-work> ‏i wonder what this one does...
[00:38:34] <hawke> which?
[00:38:36] <michalj> that's why the timestamps are a bit odd
[00:38:47] <hawke> michalj: yes, I know -- they're treated the same as the letters.
[00:38:57] <michalj> :)
[00:39:10] <ALok-work> zero width space?
[00:39:58] <ALok-work> ‬‬‬
[00:40:00] <ALok-work> HEHE
[00:40:10] <ALok-work> k, i'm bored
[00:40:18] <michalj> most fonts do not contain zero-width space
[00:40:24] <hawke> we couldn't tell...
[00:41:47] IceRAM joins the room
[00:42:08] <IceRAM> phew.. it's tuesday
[00:42:17] <IceRAM> I had the feeling it's wednesday
[00:42:34] <hawke> I wish
[00:42:40] <ALok-work> lol
[00:42:56] <IceRAM> there were too many people in here
[00:43:25] <hawke> Hmm...I should change my nick to a left-to-right override char
[00:44:00] <hawke> "should" ;-)
[00:45:07] <IceRAM> that's an excelent idea
[00:45:08] <IceRAM> :D
[00:45:08] ALok-work is now known as koLA
[00:45:08] koLA is now known as ALok-work
[00:45:09] ALok-work is now known as koLA
[00:45:13] <koLA> crap i hate google
[00:45:32] IceRAM is now known as IceRAM-test
[00:45:54] <koLA> ‮
[00:46:13] <koLA>
[00:46:27] koLA is now known as ALok-work
[00:46:27] ALok-work is now known as koLA
[00:46:34] <koLA> stupid google
[00:47:15] <IceRAM-test> hmm...
[00:49:00] uhoreg joins the room
[00:49:40] koLA leaves the room
[00:49:40] ALok-work joins the room
[00:49:47] IceRAM-test is now known as "
[00:49:50] ALok-work is now known as Kola
[00:49:51] Kola is now known as ALok-work
[00:49:51] ALok-work is now known as Kola
[00:49:52] <"> :))
[00:49:59] <Kola> mmm
[00:50:01] <"> yup
[00:50:06] <"> this nickname looks interesting
[00:50:07] <Kola> it looke like this is messed up...
[00:50:29] <"> oh.. and I'm the first :D
[00:50:36] <Kola> i only see you and TobiasFar
[00:50:52] <"> who "you"?
[00:51:00] <Kola> "
[00:51:13] <"> hmm... try rejoining
[00:51:16] <Kola> i just did
[00:51:17] <Kola> hehe
[00:51:23] Kola leaves the room
[00:51:23] ALok-work joins the room
[00:51:27] ALok-work is now known as Kola
[00:51:27] Kola is now known as ALok-work
[00:51:27] ALok-work is now known as Kola
[00:51:32] <Kola> I'm alone!
[00:51:40] <Kola> :(
[00:51:45] <c00i90wn> lol
[00:51:46] <iono> cheer up Kola
[00:51:46] <iono> *hugs*
[00:51:47] <michalj> don't be so sure
[00:51:51] <Kola> i think it thoese unicode chars
[00:51:53] <Kola> lol
[00:51:58] <Kola> the roster is empty
[00:52:02] <Kola> i don't know the topic
[00:52:04] <michalj> really?
[00:52:05] <"> well.. some funky stuff happens there with you joining and rejoining
[00:52:09] <Kola> i have no log
[00:52:25] " is now known as '
[00:52:30] <'> oh.. this is better :D
[00:52:33] <Kola> let me reconnect...
[00:52:40] Kola is now known as ><
[00:52:40] >< is now known as ALok-work
[00:52:40] ALok-work is now known as Kola
[00:52:46] <Kola> google sucks
[00:52:51] <iono> Google = turd-shaver.
[00:52:52] Kola leaves the room: Logged out
[00:52:58] >< joins the room
[00:53:03] <><> there we go!
[00:53:12] <'> what does Google have to do with it
[00:53:20] <><> because it does not happen with other servers...
[00:53:32] <><> when i use google to connect to MUCs i have problems
[00:53:37] <><> i dunno why i would...
[00:53:47] <><> its wierd
[00:53:58] <michalj> MUCs or Groupchats?
[00:54:07] <michalj> these are two protocols
[00:54:17] <><> both
[00:54:20] <michalj> maybe GoogleTalk does not fully support MUC
[00:54:30] <><> i am using Psi... on the googletalk server
[00:54:40] <><> so i dunno if the server mangles sometjhihng
[00:54:52] >< is now known as Kola
[00:54:52] Kola is now known as ><
[00:54:52] >< is now known as Kola
[00:55:12] <Kola> when i try to change nicks...
[00:55:19] <Kola> it replys with like 6 stanzas
[00:55:29] <c00i90wn> Yes we see that
[00:55:38] <remko> yeah, google talk is pretty dodgy with MUC
[00:55:42] <Kola> it might have to do with the fact that its <presence>
[00:55:54] <Kola> and it tries to store that on server...
[00:55:58] <Kola> brb
[00:56:00] Kola leaves the room: Logged out
[00:56:06] Kola joins the room
[00:56:28] <c00i90wn> remko: I know a good feature you can add to muc, ability to rename users on the roster
[00:56:34] <Kola> i thought about moving to a diff server...
[00:56:46] <Kola> but my private server is not ejabberd and i kinda want it to be
[00:57:04] ' leaves the room
[00:57:12] ' joins the room
[00:57:13] <c00i90wn> remko: cuz the recent nick of kola, ><, was quite annoying
[00:57:21] <remko> c00i90wn: :)
[00:57:33] <remko> c00i90wn: i think 'kick' functionality is enough
[00:57:47] <Kola> lol
[00:57:48] <c00i90wn> remko: yeah if you are a moderator :P
[00:57:51] <c00i90wn> lol
[00:58:13] <Kola> the nick | seems nice
[00:58:22] <Kola> and some others ][
[00:58:24] <'> hey... don't use ' as you're calling me :D
[00:58:25] <Kola> )(
[00:58:40] ' leaves the room
[00:58:40] <Kola> lol i think i'll ...
[00:58:42] <Kola> i dunno
[00:58:51] ' joins the room
[00:58:53] <c00i90wn> remko: or at least a feature 'ignore stupidity' :P
[00:58:53] <Kola> '
[00:59:08] <Kola> lol, yea ignore might be a good feature
[01:00:06] <'> hm.. ok.. I've noticed that I can't set my nick to ENTER
[01:00:20] <'> still trying... :D
[01:00:32] <'> (others)
[01:00:38] <michalj> no comments
[01:01:08] <Kola> enter?
[01:01:19] <michalj> if You manage to set it to either 0xFFFE, 0xFEFF or 0xFFFF (Unicode glyphs), please let us know about it
[01:01:23] <'> the ENTER character
[01:01:27] <michalj> especially the last one
[01:02:01] <Kola> its a xml thing?
[01:02:04] <Kola> it would not work
[01:02:10] <'> yes
[01:02:24] <'> if you send enter as your nick the stream interrupts...
[01:02:29] <'> don't know exactly why
[01:02:42] ' leaves the room
[01:02:47] <Kola> because you have a string that is not terminated
[01:02:51] ' joins the room
[01:02:58] <Kola> < key="valeu
">
[01:03:00] <michalj> try sending \n or \r ;-)
[01:03:06] <Kola> that string btraks
[01:03:11] <Kola> and i doubt its allowed to do that
[01:04:02] ' is now known as "
[01:05:05] " leaves the room
[01:05:06] Kola is now known as ÿ
[01:05:06] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:05:13] " joins the room
[01:06:44] michalj leaves the room
[01:06:47] <Kola> hrm
[01:07:03] Kola is now known as ÿ
[01:07:03] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:07:44] <Kola> hrm...
[01:07:52] Kola is now known as ?
[01:07:52] ? is now known as ÿ
[01:07:52] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:07:52] Kola is now known as ?
[01:08:52] ? is now known as ÿ
[01:08:52] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:08:52] Kola is now known as ?
[01:09:26] " is now known as E
[01:09:46] <E> oh.. so 0x45 =='E'
[01:09:59] ? is now known as ÿ
[01:09:59] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:09:59] Kola is now known as ?
[01:10:03] <E> good to know... my random guess didn't work
[01:10:10] ? leaves the room
[01:10:10] ÿ joins the room
[01:10:10] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:10:10] Kola is now known as ?
[01:10:50] ? is now known as Kola
[01:10:50] Kola is now known as ÿ
[01:10:50] ÿ is now known as Kola
[01:10:50] Kola is now known as ?
[01:10:57] ? leaves the room
[01:10:57] ÿ joins the room
[01:10:57] ÿ is now known as ?
[01:11:02] ? leaves the room: Logged out
[01:11:05] E is now known as .
[01:11:20] <.> hmm.. better
[01:11:25] <.> switching nicks is boring
[01:12:09] Kola joins the room
[01:12:22] Kola leaves the room: Logged out
[01:12:33] Kola joins the room
[01:12:59] <Kola> 0x41 = 65 = 'A'
[01:13:25] <Kola> 97 = 'a'
[01:16:53] <c00i90wn> . stop putting those annoying nicks
[01:16:58] <c00i90wn> remko: do something about it :P
[01:17:13] <c00i90wn> please :)
[01:17:18] <Kev> .: please stop that
[01:18:07] <.> understood
[01:18:30] <.> I only used . ' " btw
[01:18:32] <Kola> time to leave
[01:18:33] <Kola> bbl
[01:18:36] Kola leaves the room
[01:18:45] <c00i90wn> .: if you want to do things like that create your own room
[01:19:09] <Kev> argh, iceram and kola are different people
[01:19:45] <.> indeed
[01:20:00] <.> I believe kola's server has something to do with him changing nicks all the time
[01:20:09] <Kev> alok: please don't do that
[01:20:10] <.> or.. he mentioned he was on Google
[01:20:46] <hawke> Yes
[01:20:51] <hawke> It is a server problem
[01:20:56] <.> it looked like a racing problem
[01:20:58] <hawke> I've seen it happen once before on google
[01:21:11] <.> I've just read that you could reserve nicks in a MUC room
[01:21:14] <hawke> er, with someone on a gmail account
[01:21:37] <.> and they would be automatically given to you when entering
[01:21:51] <.> and.. btw... it's very difficult to find out the allowed characters
[01:22:18] <.> MUC -> RFC 3920 -> stringprep (still looking for this one)
[01:23:48] <hawke> It's in one of the RFCs
[01:23:56] <hawke> should be referenced from the XMPP RFC
[01:26:34] <hawke> rfc 3454
[01:27:39] <remko> c00i90wn: is my service still required ?
[01:27:45] <Kev> no
[01:27:48] <Kev> alok's stopped
[01:27:55] <Kev> and iceram's also stopped :)
[01:27:58] <remko> good
[01:28:04] <.> I was only trying . ' "
[01:28:10] <remko> try on other channels
[01:28:19] <remko> channels owned and only inhabited by you
[01:28:37] <Kev> I don't understand
[01:28:41] <Kev> .: you are iceram?
[01:28:59] <c00i90wn> remko, Kev: thanks though :)
[01:29:01] <.> as far as I remember
[01:29:08] <Kev> my tooltip says you are
[01:29:21] <Kev> ah yes
[01:29:27] <c00i90wn> .: can't you put icecream then?
[01:29:35] <Kev> I crossed threads when looking at all the nick changes
[01:29:42] <.> how come your tooltip says this?
[01:29:49] <remko> because he's an ad min
[01:29:54] <Kev> becau...
[01:29:59] <Kev> what remko says
[01:30:00] <.> that was my second line
[01:30:02] <.> :)
[01:30:08] badlop leaves the room
[01:30:40] <hawke> the gtalk server gets confused about presence sent to muc/groupchat JIDs...
[01:31:07] <.> hmm.. has anyone tried joining test@conference.jabber.ru
[01:31:15] <.> I get a message from (null) in russian
[01:31:35] <.> and... that doesn't look right
[01:31:47] <remko> that's what happens on russian test channels :)
[01:31:53] <.> (considering that (null) is not in the room)
[01:32:09] <remko> it can be history
[01:32:36] <remko> it probably is :)
[01:32:39] <.> hmm..
[01:32:59] <remko> join again
[01:33:02] <remko> you'll see remko say something
[01:33:07] <remko> yet he's not in the channel ;)
[01:33:11] BartVB leaves the room
[01:33:58] <.> hmm.. indeed
[01:34:09] <.> forgot about history
[01:34:53] <c00i90wn> WIN32 question, is it possible to have some documentation on how to configure firefox or better, the entire system to handle xmms: ?
[01:35:16] <Kev> c00i90wn: is there an xmms port for windows?
[01:35:24] <Kev> and what does the url mean?
[01:35:36] <Kev> anyway, this probably isn't the best place to ask that
[01:36:11] <c00i90wn> lol, xmpp I meant
[01:36:20] <Kev> ah, yes, yes there is
[01:36:23] <Kev> but I'm not sure where :s
[01:36:40] <Kev> one of the planet.jabber.org blogged about it once, I believe
[01:36:50] <Kev> however, Psi can't handle those URLs yet ;/
[01:37:21] <c00i90wn> ah yes, that's why asked, to see if psi could handle them :)
[01:38:07] <Kev> not yet then ;/
[01:38:21] <c00i90wn> thanks Kev :)
[01:40:27] . leaves the room
[01:40:44] IceRAM joins the room
[01:40:59] <hawke> Wow, Psi doesn't like it when the person you're PMing leaves the room...sheesh
[01:41:00] muehlbucks leaves the room
[01:41:10] <Kev> hawke: 'doesn't like it'?
[01:41:20] <IceRAM> hmm.. I made it crash...
[01:41:23] <IceRAM> I wonder what I did
[01:41:40] <hawke> Kev: I presume the typing notifications start bouncing...
[01:41:54] <Kev> ah, right
[01:42:26] <IceRAM> I was dragging something and it crashed
[01:42:39] <IceRAM> not remember exactly what I was dragging in the MUC dialig
[01:42:41] <IceRAM> dialog
[01:43:01] <remko> gdb traces would be handy
[01:44:29] <remko> was it just dragging ?
[01:44:39] <IceRAM> I think so
[01:44:46] <IceRAM> oh.. I have them enabled
[01:44:53] <IceRAM> I have to remember where they're saved
[01:45:25] <IceRAM> oh... found the core file
[01:45:37] <IceRAM> backtracing now...
[01:46:10] TobiasFar leaves the room
[01:46:27] <IceRAM> uh.. shucks
[01:46:37] <IceRAM> lots of symbols loaded... from Qt4 libs
[01:46:52] <IceRAM> remko: you'll get it into a message
[01:46:55] <remko> ok
[01:47:04] <IceRAM> it crashed in #0 0x080d7c42 in XMPP::MUCItem::role (this=0x64) at ../iris/xmpp-im/types.cpp:536
536 return role_;
[01:47:11] <remko> that's odd
[01:47:20] <IceRAM> more in message
[01:47:26] <IceRAM> how many frames do you want
[01:47:27] <IceRAM> ?
[01:47:36] <remko> the top
[01:47:38] <remko> :)
[01:47:46] <remko> i don't know, until you get into groupchatdlg or something
[01:50:10] <IceRAM> indeed
[01:50:23] <IceRAM> it is somewhere when the popup appears
[01:51:09] <remko> i can guess what's wrong
[01:52:23] <IceRAM> a GC==0 as far as I've seen
[01:52:30] <IceRAM> a not parented popup...
[01:52:50] <IceRAM> (my unexpert guess)
[01:53:23] <ALok> i hate this whole.. some messages are "message and others are "chat"
[01:53:46] <ALok> who created the idea?
[01:54:05] <remko> alok: apparently somebody less smart than you
[01:54:35] <Kev> alas, with so little alok to go around, other people have to do some of the thinking
[01:54:55] <remko> and then you get big mistakes like this
[01:55:09] <Kev> such is life
[01:56:30] <zenek> rofl
[01:56:37] <hawke> I agree with alok -- messages vs. chats should not be at the protocol level, they should just be different interpretations of the same thing.
[01:57:13] <Kev> I think the distinction may not be so useful now
[01:57:15] <remko> hawke: if they're not at the protocol level, there is no distinction
[01:57:32] <remko> hawke: whether or not the distinction is useful in the UI is a different discussion
[01:57:32] <Kev> but that if we ever move towards more mail-like-xmpp, it'll be very handy
[01:57:36] <Kev> I do use the distinction now
[01:57:52] <Kev> when I want to send someone a mail-like message in conjunction with a chat
[01:58:10] <remko> yeah, i never liked it myself. I especially hate it when people send me long messages
[01:58:11] <c00i90wn> and there is a biggest and more important difference between them is that messages crash psi when opening and chats don't :P
[01:58:27] <remko> i have e-mail for that ;)
[01:58:54] <remko> IceRAM: i'm going to do a lame check :)
[02:00:09] <remko> oh wait
[02:01:12] <remko> hmm, it's even weirder than i thought
[02:01:56] <hawke> remko: there is still a distinction, even if it's not at the protocol level: a "email client" xmpp client could display messages one way, while a "IM client in chat mode" could display another, and a "IM client in message mode" could do still another.
[02:02:12] <remko> hawke: but none would interleave both
[02:05:18] <ALok> i got a better idea...
[02:05:37] <ALok> messages have to explicit.. to whether they are chat or mail
[02:05:59] <ALok> i think it would solve some of our problems
[02:06:11] <ALok> plus maybe some others like "error"
[02:06:23] <remko> explicit ?
[02:06:29] <hawke> they already are...
[02:06:42] <hawke> at least, "chat" or "mesage"
[02:06:46] <ALok> no.... if i send a message without saying what it is... it does not return an error
[02:07:00] <remko> indeed
[02:07:02] <hawke> No, if you don't say what it is it is treated as a message
[02:07:04] <Kev> ALok: you are saying what type it is, in that case :)
[02:07:04] <remko> because then it's a message
[02:07:12] <Kev> you are saying it's a messag
[02:07:14] <Kev> heh
[02:07:27] <ALok> implicit means you don;t specify and it assumes
[02:07:37] <Kev> ALok: yes, this is not implicit
[02:07:39] <ALok> explicit means you HAVE to specity
[02:07:42] <Kev> this is specified
[02:07:46] <Kev> indeed
[02:07:47] <remko> and how would this change it ?
[02:07:52] <Kev> and you do have to specify
[02:08:04] <ALok> it would force messages i recive to be either or...
[02:08:06] <Kev> specify a chat by saying 'chat'
[02:08:11] <Kev> specify a message by not saying 'chat'
[02:08:12] <ALok> yes
[02:08:14] <ALok> no
[02:08:21] <ALok> that is called implicity specification
[02:08:28] <ALok> i say explicit
[02:08:34] <remko> ALok: by making it explicit, you leave a third type totally unspecified
[02:08:39] <ALok> exactly
[02:08:44] <remko> ALok: that's worse
[02:08:46] <ALok> that type is left to go to oblivion
[02:08:48] <remko> a lot worse
[02:08:52] <ALok> no its not...
[02:08:54] <remko> oblivion ?!
[02:08:54] <Kev> alok
[02:08:57] <ALok> i'd rather not recive bad messages
[02:09:03] <Kev> you're saying that sending a stanza <message>
[02:09:08] <Kev> it's implicit that that's a message?
[02:09:11] <ALok> no
[02:09:22] <remko> ALok: you are just shifting the problem, alok
[02:09:49] <ALok> i think the problem is that "messages" exist
[02:09:52] <ALok> how about that
[02:09:55] <remko> ALok: a message without type is explicitly defined as being a message, period. By dropping messages without a type and forcing that there must be a type, you have the identical situation as before
[02:09:58] <ALok> we should just use email for that
[02:10:05] viahack joins the room
[02:10:22] <remko> ALok: you have changed nothing by your transformation
[02:10:25] マチェック joins the room
[02:10:45] <ALok> i have... be cause then a person has to think ... what do i want to send... a message or a chat?
[02:10:52] <remko> it does now as well
[02:11:00] <ALok> rather than ... lets send text...
[02:11:04] <remko> because it *knows* by specification that, if it doesn't say it's a chat, it's a message
[02:11:07] <ALok> or lets up that send a message
[02:11:16] <ALok> bbl
[02:11:19] <ALok> this is crazy
[02:11:33] <remko> ALok: indeed. Think about it a bit ;-)
[02:11:41] <ALok> there needs to be a message inbox
[02:11:45] <ALok> seperate from the roster
[02:11:57] <remko> ALok: yes, that's a GUI issue.
[02:12:13] <Kev> and, indeed, one we've spoken, at some length, about addressing
[02:12:26] <Kev> the mailing list logs are available if the topic interests you
[02:12:54] <c00i90wn> remko: adding a ! next to the * when there has been a hilight in muc would be nice :)
[02:13:39] <psidekick> 20 Jun 22:02 - Avoid segfaults in gcmaindlg. - Avoid segfaults in gcmaindlg. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060620220217-04f00-13e311042d695ad461950525992853c288088b1c.gz
[02:14:09] <Kev> c00i90wn: I think there ary many improvements with hilights in muc
[02:15:25] <c00i90wn> Kev: uhm? as in planned or that they are there already?
[02:16:28] <Kev> neither, really
[02:16:34] <Kev> we need to think about it
[02:16:52] <Kev> some changes could be tied to a new history system with bookmarks, I think
[02:16:53] <マチェック> hmm.. who broke the chat log website? ;)
[02:16:58] <Kev> but that's a major piece of work
[02:17:23] <Kev> seems to work for me machekku
[02:17:27] <マチェック> hmm...
[02:17:41] <マチェック> it's right-to-left in my firefox
[02:18:22] <Kev> ah, so it is
[02:18:43] <remko> some people thought it was funny to send R-to-L control chars
[02:19:07] <マチェック> maybe someone could send left-to-right to make it back normal?
[02:19:23] <remko> ‎
[02:19:31] <remko> i'm not sure if that did it
[02:19:46] <IceRAM> remko: neat fix for the crash
[02:19:52] <hawke> I thought I fixed it...
[02:19:55] <マチェック> remko: I don't think so ;)
[02:19:56] <マチェック> let me try
[02:20:01] <Kev> ah, alok it seems
[02:20:04] slubman leaves the room
[02:20:10] <hawke> ‭
[02:20:11] slubman joins the room
[02:20:15] <ALok> hrm
[02:20:15] <IceRAM> where do you get the LTR character?
[02:20:17] <c00i90wn> Kev: I see, well, guess I'll have to wait more, I'm just saying my suggestion as they come into my mind :)
[02:20:20] <マチェック> abc‎xyz
[02:20:23] <IceRAM> ah... :D
[02:20:23] <マチェック> test
[02:20:25] <ALok> o... ‮
[02:20:28] <Kev> c00i90wn: it's a fine suggestion
[02:20:36] <IceRAM> context menu > insert Unicode character...
[02:20:38] <ALok> ‮hehe
[02:20:43] <Kev> ALok: as a general, polite request
[02:20:56] <マチェック> IceRAM: which OS?
[02:20:57] <Kev> please do not do things to disrupt the general flow/function of this channel
[02:21:07] viahack leaves the room
[02:21:07] <hawke> ‭fix, *again*
[02:21:07] <IceRAM> Linux
[02:21:13] <remko> yeah, looking at the logs, it's always alok doing this
[02:21:14] <hawke> maybe the logger should filter that crap out.
[02:21:25] <Kev> hawke: you mean filter alok out? :)
[02:21:26] <remko> maybe we should kick people doing this over and over again
[02:21:29] <マチェック> IceRAM: let me check if it works with Qt4 on windows at last
[02:21:33] <ALok> :(
[02:21:37] <ALok> remko hates me
[02:21:39] <hawke> Kev: I meant filter the directional overrides
[02:21:48] <Kev> hawke: my solution is less work :)
[02:21:58] <IceRAM> apparently, there's a new entry in the context menu of the text edit
[02:21:58] <ALok> Kev hates me
[02:22:01] <Kev> ALok: you're being disruptive, no-one likes disruptions
[02:22:03] <remko> IceRAM: indeed
[02:22:09] <ALok> disruptive to?
[02:22:10] <Kev> stop it and no-one will care :)
[02:22:18] <ALok> at least my nick is no ' or .
[02:22:22] <hawke> Kev: It's only less work in the short term -- otherwise it's like wack-a-mole. :)
[02:22:32] <IceRAM> ALok: I was testing stringprep
[02:22:38] <Kev> hawke: phrasing it like that sounds kinda fun
[02:22:42] <ALok> whatever
[02:22:47] <IceRAM> and Psi crashing
[02:22:53] mck joins the room
[02:22:56] <Kev> yeah, this is not the place for testing stringprep, or crashing psi either
[02:22:59] <IceRAM> and it did crash.. but not where I was expecting it
[02:23:12] <IceRAM> well, indeed.. this was wrong
[02:23:37] <IceRAM> I changed my nick 4 times and I must have flooded the channel with that :)
[02:23:42] slubman leaves the room
[02:23:50] <mck> hmm... yes there is "insert unicode character" in qt4, but it's still not the native context menu, so still some menu items are missing
[02:23:50] slubman joins the room
[02:24:20] <IceRAM> mck: what do you mean "it's still not the native context menu"?
[02:24:44] <mck> IceRAM: wait, I'll show you context menu of native edit controls
[02:25:23] <c00i90wn> Kev: If you need some coders for testing the Py plugin and I have time you can count with me :)
[02:25:33] <Kev> c00i90wn: thanks :)
[02:25:41] <Kev> c00i90wn: I hope to work on the python again soon
[02:25:52] <Kev> but you can't count on anything usable until august
[02:26:04] <Kev> and it probably won't be enabled by default until after 0.11
[02:26:21] <c00i90wn> Kev: np, is the least I can do for the great work you all are doing here :)
[02:26:38] <Kev> thanks :)
[02:27:54] <c00i90wn> ;)
[02:35:34] <ALok> how is scripting coming?
[02:35:35] maxi leaves the room: Disconnected
[02:35:36] <IceRAM> hmm.. do you think it's possible to send a file over to another user in a muc room?
[02:35:42] <ALok> is scripting going to be a plugin?
[02:36:10] <hawke> IceRAM: no
[02:36:55] <ALok> what is file transfer anyways?
[02:37:05] <ALok> as in what jep
[02:37:37] mck leaves the room
[02:38:50] <マチェック> IceRAM: compare and contrast: http://machekku.uaznia.net/jabber/psi/screens/context_menu.png
[02:39:35] <ALok> um... windows is not in english?
[02:39:40] <ALok> i think that would be your problem
[02:39:41] <ALok> ;)
[02:39:52] <マチェック> hahaha ;)
[02:39:55] <マチェック> you know what I mean ;)
[02:40:14] <ALok> in english... there are no unicode options
[02:40:28] <ALok> i think
[02:40:37] zenek leaves the room
[02:40:46] <マチェック> ALok: it's not about translation, it's about what the menu contains
[02:41:03] <マチェック> and the sad fact that this is still not real menu but imperfect fake
[02:41:08] <ALok> i mean... if windows is set to english... the meny does not exist
[02:41:20] <マチェック> I'm using them on Polish windows
[02:41:25] <マチェック> just have no qt translation
[02:41:37] <ALok> i realize...
[02:42:00] <ALok> i am saying windows in english mode would not even have a menu yfor you to compare to
[02:42:23] <マチェック> do you have english windows somewhere?
[02:42:46] <ALok> i use windows in its natrual habitat
[02:42:49] <ALok> America
[02:43:01] remko leaves the room: Logged out
[02:43:02] <ALok> the way things normally are
[02:43:26] <ALok> because you know windows is developed in American English
[02:43:39] <ALok> and there are no unicode menus normally
[02:43:49] <ALok> except in these Qt and GTK proggies
[02:43:59] <マチェック> so uncheck "disable advanced text services" in control panel -> regional and language settings -> languages -> details-> advanced
[02:44:16] <ALok> ?
[02:44:17] <マチェック> you may still not see last two options if you don't enable IME, but the unicode options should appear
[02:44:26] <マチェック> brb
[02:44:53] remko joins the room
[02:44:53] <ALok> i have chinese IMEs installed...
[02:45:13] <ALok> advanced text services are off
[02:45:36] <ALok> i guess i mgiht need that "Extend" advanced text services...
[02:45:48] <ALok> but that means i need to reboot
[02:46:42] <c00i90wn> Oh, yet another idea for muc, independent presence for each muc joined
[02:46:57] <ALok> ?
[02:47:05] <ALok> o
[02:47:18] <ALok> that'd be intresting...
[02:47:36] <c00i90wn> indeed :)
[02:47:48] <マチェック> ALok: I don't know how the option is called in English version
[02:47:56] <ALok> where is it?
[02:48:17] <マチェック> control panel -> regional and language settings -> languages -> details-> advanced
[02:48:23] <ALok> yep
[02:48:23] <マチェック> system configuration box
[02:48:25] <ALok> what about it...
[02:48:27] <マチェック> (2nd)
[02:48:37] <マチェック> uncheck and you have bigger context menu
[02:48:40] <ALok> read up
[02:48:48] <ALok> ip ip
[02:48:51] <ALok> upup*
[02:49:00] <マチェック> [00:48:06] <ALok> where is it? <-- so what's this?
[02:49:04] <ALok> no...
[02:49:14] <ALok> right after you left
[02:49:34] <マチェック> ok, sorry, I thought this was answer to my " I don't know how the option is called in English version", sorry
[02:49:53] <ALok> i don't know about the menus
[02:49:58] <ALok> i think it depends on your langaue
[02:50:13] <ALok> not really those check boxes...
[02:50:23] <ALok> but what langauges you have set on the machine
[02:50:30] <マチェック> I don't think I can write right-to-left in Polish, but still I can see that options
[02:50:36] <マチェック> not I can write like this in Japanese
[02:50:37] <ALok> hrm...
[02:50:43] <ALok> i dunno
[02:50:43] <マチェック> nor in English
[02:50:52] <ALok> then ... i dunno
[02:50:59] <ALok> i have never seen the menu in windows...
[02:51:15] <マチェック> because you never tried this checkbox ;)
[02:51:19] <ALok> no i have...
[02:51:37] <ALok> you want me to show you a screen shot?
[02:51:55] <ALok> its always been set the same way...
[02:52:18] <ALok> i hate chats...
[02:52:26] <ALok> i have such a hard time conveying meanings
[02:52:28] <マチェック> ok, nevermind
[02:52:58] deucalion joins the room
[02:52:59] <ALok> i almost want to say you faked that menu
[02:53:05] <ALok> but i won't
[02:53:26] <ALok> http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4757/untitled9br.png
[02:53:41] deucalion feels the urge to upgrade now to finally have pep-support... but... will do tomorrow
[02:53:48] <deucalion> thanks again btw :)
[02:54:06] <ALok> i want ejabberd from my host
[02:54:09] <ALok> BLEH!
[02:54:20] <deucalion> I'll have it... tomorrow :)
[02:54:23] <hawke> deucalion: is there any server that supports pep yet? does ejabberd now?
[02:54:33] <deucalion> hawke: magic patches :)
[02:54:36] <ALok> ejabberd seems to support everything
[02:54:43] <deucalion> http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~henoch/text/ejabberd-pep.html
[02:54:46] <deucalion> ;)
[02:54:48] <remko> ALok: except the new PubSub ;-)
[02:54:53] <iono> ;)
[02:54:54] <ALok> the new?
[02:54:59] <deucalion> but... you need hidden CONFIG options to enable it
[02:55:02] <remko> i had to downgrade Psi to be able to test PEP with it
[02:55:21] <deucalion> (because the patchset supports an older version only... psi is always up-to-spec... or course :D )
[02:55:21] remko just installed Wildfire as his IM server, and is loving it
[02:55:32] <ALok> how is wildfire?
[02:55:35] <remko> excellent
[02:55:37] <hawke> wildfire ROCKS
[02:55:43] <deucalion> remko: pep support?
[02:55:43] <hawke> only thing it misses is vhost
[02:55:48] <remko> deucalion: soon
[02:55:55] <remko> deucalion: but at least PubSub 1.8 support :)
[02:55:56] <deucalion> remko: ah, you said. 1month
[02:55:59] <ALok> vhost?
[02:56:04] <hawke> and remote server browsing references
[02:56:09] <deucalion> remko: mmh... I'll migrate then I guess :)
[02:56:09] <hawke> ALok: yes, virtual hosting
[02:56:10] <remko> nope, no vhost, but i don't need it
[02:56:16] <ALok> i need vhost...
[02:56:22] <ALok> i am on a shared server :(
[02:56:23] <remko> well, then use ejabberd
[02:56:24] <マチェック> ALok: I don't have time to fake screenshot, and it wouldn't give me any profit. So let's assume that it depends on other things than just this checkbox. Even this way, if my windows displays more commands in the context menu, I'd like to see them in qt apps, too
[02:56:52] <ALok> it does not depend on the check box... be cause i have had it both ways
[02:56:57] remko is going to bed
[02:57:00] remko leaves the room: Logged out
[02:57:06] <deucalion> gd n8 :)
[02:57:12] <hawke> night deucalion
[02:58:05] <c00i90wn> if anyone owns a TI it should check wordrider.net awesome app :D
[02:58:30] <ALok> TI?
[02:58:34] <ALok> 83?
[02:58:36] <ALok> 89?
[02:58:47] <ALok> TI is a company
[02:58:57] <ALok> they used to at onepoint make missiles
[02:59:05] <ALok> at least i think
[02:59:20] <c00i90wn> well ok, any TI calculator
[02:59:36] <ALok> not 81
[02:59:36] <ALok> 82
[02:59:37] <ALok> 83
[02:59:40] <ALok> 84
[02:59:41] <ALok> 85
[02:59:41] <ALok> 86
[03:00:07] <c00i90wn> I thought they were supported :P oh well :P
[03:00:07] <ALok> you mean to say calculator TI-89/92+/V200
[03:00:37] <hawke> lol
[03:01:03] <c00i90wn> and then you ask why people hate you :P
[03:01:20] <ALok> :)
[03:01:29] <ALok> and then they can't give me a real answer
[03:03:35] <c00i90wn> kev did :P
[03:14:21] <Kev> answer to what?
[03:14:33] <Kev> ah
[03:14:36] <Kev> with you :)
[03:21:26] <ALok> i didn't see no answer
[03:21:40] <ALok> just like you and your "any TI calculator"
[03:22:52] <hawke> ALok: [17:22:10] <Kev> ALok: you're being disruptive, no-one likes disruptions
[03:23:07] <ALok> um...
[03:23:14] <ALok> disruptive...
[03:23:19] <ALok> that is not really true
[03:23:32] <hawke> writing RTL overrides = disruptive
[03:23:33] <ALok> tell me how i was disrupting this chat?
[03:23:52] <albert> The chat log tells you all you have to know.
[03:23:54] <ALok> let me emphisise "this chat"
[03:23:57] <Kev> I think repeatedly, deliberately, breaking room logging is enough
[03:24:06] <Kev> don't you?
[03:24:10] <ALok> true...
[03:24:27] <ALok> but its all a matter of what the real answer is...
[03:24:33] <ALok> see what i mean?
[03:25:07] <Kev> no, not at all
[03:25:21] <ALok> this is why no one agreed with me on the explicity thing...
[03:25:32] <ALok> because all you guys run on implicity
[03:25:38] <Kev> ah, because you were wrong? :)
[03:25:40] <ALok> you guys assume things
[03:25:56] <ALok> you guys always assume things...
[03:26:04] <ALok> meaning if i assume something different
[03:26:07] <ALok> your meaning is off
[03:26:38] <Kev> I think when you're talking about the meaning of words
[03:26:48] <ALok> yea i belive i can be
[03:26:53] <Kev> there's not much room for you to have different assumptions from the rest of us
[03:27:14] <ALok> ...
[03:28:03] <hawke> I'm out
[03:28:09] <iono> YOU'RE out? feel these nipples!
[03:28:12] hawke leaves the room
[03:28:14] <Kev> haha
[03:28:17] Kev hugs iono
[03:28:18] <ALok> i hate iono
[03:28:21] <iono> i have had enough of your smelly mouth filled with corn
[03:28:25] <iono> *spangle*
[03:28:36] ALok kills iono
[03:28:43] <iono> arrgh my leg! now i only have 6 left
[03:28:59] <ALok> /...
[03:29:46] albert feeds iono
[03:29:51] iono feeds albert
[03:29:57] <albert> Ehm...
[03:29:57] ALok watches 69
[03:37:27] muehlbucks joins the room
[03:37:44] <muehlbucks> anyone know what version of qt4 dapper drake uses?
[03:38:00] <ALok> version 4?
[03:38:05] <muehlbucks> 4.?
[03:38:12] <Kev> not a clue, sorry
[03:38:19] <ALok> um
[03:38:26] <muehlbucks> i just did a fresh dapper install... trying to decide if i need to install qt from source again
[03:38:40] <muehlbucks> and i can't remember how you check the version of something in apt
[03:38:40] <ALok> i might be able to look it up
[03:38:51] <muehlbucks> psi needs 4.1 right?
[03:38:52] <Kev> apt-cache search
[03:38:57] <Kev> dpkg -S
[03:39:05] <ALok> dapper uses 3.3.6
[03:39:22] <ALok> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu
[03:39:49] <muehlbucks> says 4.1.3
[03:39:58] <muehlbucks> i assume that's qt-x11
[03:40:17] <ALok> no...
[03:40:22] <ALok> 4.1.3 is the current version
[03:40:33] <ALok> the first col tells you the latest stable
[03:40:38] <muehlbucks> oh duh
[03:40:39] <muehlbucks> mis read
[03:40:51] <muehlbucks> well there are qt4 packages... i'm just gonna install and see
[03:41:02] <ALok> :)
[03:41:06] <ALok> dapper is pretty nice
[03:41:11] <ALok> though i don't use it much
[03:41:19] <muehlbucks> yeah except i don't like graphical installers
[03:41:24] <IceRAM> マチェック: I didn't even know that WinXP has such menu
[03:41:25] <muehlbucks> the kubuntu installer kept crashing
[03:41:26] <ALok> graphicall?
[03:41:30] <muehlbucks> uses X
[03:41:33] <ALok> i updated
[03:41:41] <muehlbucks> me too, but it broke a couple things
[03:41:45] <ALok> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
[03:41:52] <muehlbucks> you mean dist-upgrade
[03:41:53] <マチェック> IceRAM: may trolltech doesn't know, too ;)
[03:41:54] <ALok> yea
[03:42:05] <muehlbucks> so i installed xubuntu
[03:42:11] <ALok> is it anygood?
[03:42:12] <muehlbucks> and then changed to kubuntu
[03:42:17] <ALok> still premature?
[03:42:23] <muehlbucks> actually, i'm quite frond of xfce at the moment
[03:42:31] <ALok> i might do xubuntu
[03:42:36] <muehlbucks> loads the desktop using only 90mb of ram
[03:42:46] <ALok> i am on a slower system...
[03:42:50] <ALok> it might be good
[03:42:53] <muehlbucks> i'm using 146mb with psi, a terminal and firefox open
[03:43:01] <ALok> nice
[03:43:15] <muehlbucks> the only thing i miss is kioslaves
[03:44:15] <ALok> is there a xubuntu net-install?
[03:44:27] <muehlbucks> i think they're all net installs??!?
[03:44:37] <ALok> uh...
[03:44:38] <muehlbucks> maybe no
[03:44:43] <ALok> net-install as in the 6mb cd
[03:44:47] <muehlbucks> i dunno why i was thinking that
[03:45:33] <muehlbucks> i wish someone, more talented than myself, would package the py-transports for debian
[03:45:39] <muehlbucks> including init scripts and stuff
[03:45:52] <muehlbucks> i have my ejabberd start script starting and killing my transports... less than idea
[03:45:54] <muehlbucks> l
[03:46:21] <muehlbucks> qmake -v (on dapper, qt via apt)
[03:46:24] <muehlbucks> "Using Qt version 4.1.2 in /usr/lib"
[03:46:27] <muehlbucks> sweet
[03:46:40] <muehlbucks> that qt build takes quite a while
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[03:48:19] <muehlbucks> there's no NG branch anymore right?
[03:48:37] <ALok> what was ng?
[03:48:45] <マチェック> muehlbucks: it was merged into mainline
[03:48:55] <マチェック> with all the features :)
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[03:49:37] <muehlbucks> that's what i thought... someone with a wiki acct should edit darcs instructions to remove the ng stuff
[03:51:21] <Kev> I don't see ng stuff in the build instructions
[03:51:22] <Kev> where are they?
[03:51:33] <ALok> anybody understand what jigdo does?
[03:51:38] <muehlbucks> in "darcs instructions" one sec..
[03:51:51] <muehlbucks> http://psi-im.org/wiki/Darcs_Instructions
[03:53:00] <Kev> you don't need a wiki account to edit btw
[03:54:50] <muehlbucks> oh...
[03:56:27] <muehlbucks> good to know
[03:56:42] ALok dances
[03:57:59] <muehlbucks> humm... qca doesn't wanna build... what could i be forgettign
[03:58:10] <ALok> what wrong?
[03:58:30] <muehlbucks> well, it failed verifying qt4 build environment
[03:58:54] <muehlbucks> although, i've specified --qtdir, set $QTDIR, checked pkg-confg and verifed that qmake is in the path
[03:59:03] <muehlbucks> i could be missing some other part of the toolchain...
[03:59:11] <Kev> is it first in the path?
[03:59:15] <Kev> `which qmake`
[03:59:18] <muehlbucks> yes
[03:59:26] <Kev> do you have a qmakespec set?
[03:59:50] <muehlbucks> is that a system variable or what?
[03:59:53] <Kev> yep
[03:59:56] <Kev> you don't want one
[04:00:01] <Kev> nor do you want --qtdir
[04:00:04] <Kev> nor $QTDIR
[04:00:11] <Kev> all you want is for qmake to be in the path
[04:00:21] <muehlbucks> humm i've got that for sure
[04:00:34] muehlbucks thinks i must be missing something else...
[04:00:37] <Kev> undo the others
[04:00:42] <muehlbucks> ok... i'll try that
[04:00:46] <Kev> it's safest
[04:01:11] <Kev> Qt can sort out the rest :)
[04:01:54] <muehlbucks> "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtCore_debug"
[04:03:24] <Kev> do you have the dubug libraries installed?
[04:03:38] <Kev> if not
[04:03:45] <Kev> edit the .pro to not do DEBUG
[04:03:46] <muehlbucks> ah is ee
[04:03:57] <muehlbucks> yeah, just found an old post on gmane
[04:04:40] <muehlbucks> humm don't see that in the .pro
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[04:04:52] <IceRAM> it has nothing to do with the .pro file
[04:04:57] <muehlbucks> justin wrote in april that the debug stuff is hardcoded
[04:04:59] <IceRAM> I've been researching this lately
[04:04:59] <muehlbucks> oh hey
[04:05:23] <IceRAM> do you have Qt4 built with -debug-and-release?
[04:05:24] <muehlbucks> so at this point, the debug libs MUST be installed?
[04:05:39] <muehlbucks> naw, i just reinstalled kubuntu
[04:05:39] <IceRAM> no, it depends on your setup
[04:05:45] <muehlbucks> and i wanted to try with the qt4 packages
[04:05:56] <muehlbucks> i've been building qt4 from source up to this point
[04:06:44] <IceRAM> do a "ls $QTDIR/lib/QtCore*"
[04:06:55] <IceRAM> with qtdir set to the path of qt4
[04:07:25] <IceRAM> oh...
[04:07:26] <IceRAM> sorry
[04:07:50] <IceRAM> ls /opt/qt4/lib/libQtCore*.so
[04:08:26] <IceRAM> my qt4 is in /opt/qt4/
[04:08:33] <muehlbucks> mine is in /usr/lib/qt4
[04:08:48] <IceRAM> it will list one or 2 files, depending on how the build is done
[04:08:56] <muehlbucks> i did locate QtCore....
[04:09:20] <muehlbucks> |grep .so
[04:09:25] <muehlbucks> /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4.1.2
/usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
/usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4.1
/usr/lib/libQtCore.so
[04:09:33] <muehlbucks> no debuggage in there
[04:09:36] <IceRAM> ok.. so you have only release build
[04:10:05] <muehlbucks> nm, think i got it
[04:10:14] <IceRAM> and... the linker expects qtdebug, right?
[04:10:16] <muehlbucks> kubuntu (dapper) has a libqt4-debug
[04:10:25] <muehlbucks> package.. didn't notice it before
[04:10:35] <muehlbucks> i'm installing it now
[04:11:20] <IceRAM> this linkage this is kind of a problem with psi/qca/qca-openssl
[04:11:29] <IceRAM> I've been working on it to make it work
[04:11:46] <IceRAM> right now I'm waiting for some official input about this
[04:11:47] <muehlbucks> yeah, seems like an unnecessary problem
[04:12:19] <IceRAM> as far as I can tell, even the qt-interest people don't have an answer
[04:12:27] <IceRAM> maybe I didn't ask in the right place
[04:12:38] <ALok> about?
[04:12:42] <IceRAM> does anyone know where qt build related questions should be put?
[04:12:55] <ALok> lol qt
[04:12:56] <IceRAM> qmake mostly
[04:13:04] <IceRAM> more specifically
[04:13:12] <ALok> no irc/forum/mailinglist?
[04:13:16] <IceRAM> more specific (I mean)
[04:13:33] <IceRAM> the irc doesn't have a clue... mostly
[04:13:56] <IceRAM> maillist doesn't answer... don't know how much I should wait... it's been more than half of day
[04:13:59] <muehlbucks> i'd like to read up on building deb packages... now that qt4.1 is in dapper, i'd like to make psi-dev packages to install on all my workstations
[04:14:06] <IceRAM> forums... haven't thought of that
[04:14:12] <ALok> i'd stop using qt myself
[04:14:25] <ALok> but then i dunno what else to use...
[04:14:34] <muehlbucks> ALok: what do you dislike about qt?
[04:14:36] <Kev> IceRAM: I think expecting a 12 hour turnaround on mailing lists is optimistic :)
[04:14:51] <Kev> ALok: Qt's the best tool for the job
[04:14:54] <ALok> lol i hate mailing lists
[04:15:06] <ALok> espesically when i search google and i gt them...
[04:15:08] <Kev> you seem to hate quite a lot
[04:15:12] <ALok> because they never have answers
[04:15:18] <muehlbucks> psi list has been pretty dead lately, although i prefer that to the darcs commits dying :-)
[04:15:23] <ALok> i would not talk about things i like...
[04:16:01] <Kev> muehlbucks: the mailing list is less interesting these days, I think
[04:16:09] <Kev> muehlbucks: we have the forums for dealing with users
[04:16:14] <muehlbucks> remko has been coding his ass off though
[04:16:17] <Kev> the muc for just about anyone
[04:16:21] <muehlbucks> i stopped participating in the forums
[04:16:29] <Kev> and the planet for dev announcements
[04:16:46] <Kev> and lets not forget plain xmpp chat for the devs to discuss things :)
[04:17:09] <Kev> muehlbucks: I'd rather (as would everyone else I think :)) him coding his arse off than posting to the ml :)
[04:17:12] <muehlbucks> yeah, works for me.. i get remko and your psi related blog posts via jabber
[04:18:30] <muehlbucks> anyone have experience building the dev branch on windows?
[04:18:39] <Kev> yes
[04:18:43] <ALok> i did it once...
[04:18:47] <muehlbucks> i've never built anything on windows
[04:18:51] <Kev> very wise
[04:18:58] <ALok> windows can be a pain...
[04:19:00] <Kev> avoiding windows like the plague is the key to a happy life :)
[04:19:04] <muehlbucks> but i'd love for a friend or two to have a build to test
[04:19:08] <muehlbucks> Kev: agreed
[04:19:13] <ALok> nightly?
[04:19:20] <ALok> "norman"
[04:19:20] <Kev> I'm happy to do a windows build for you
[04:19:26] <muehlbucks> just formatted over my last windows partition yesterday :-)
[04:19:37] <muehlbucks> ok, i guess my question is a little deeper than that
[04:19:45] <Kev> I'll also look into making nightlies when I set up the osx nightlies
[04:19:47] <muehlbucks> what do i need to install in the way of libraries?
[04:19:55] <muehlbucks> do i need to install the whole qt sdk?
[04:19:56] <Kev> but I suspect windows nightlies on my mac mini won't happen
[04:20:00] <Kev> just Qt
[04:20:06] <Kev> it'll pull in mingw if you don't have it
[04:20:12] <ALok> um... we already have windows nigtlies right?
[04:20:22] <Kev> and that's all you need to compile qca and psi
[04:20:22] <muehlbucks> is norman still doing nightlies?
[04:20:31] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: I build psi in windows
[04:20:31] <Kev> you'll also need openssl if you want the plugin
[04:20:39] <Kev> ALok: we have no official nightlies, no
[04:20:42] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: and yes, norman is still doin them
[04:20:42] <Kev> muehlbucks: yes
[04:20:44] <ALok> true...
[04:20:57] <ALok> unoffical does not mean bad...
[04:21:00] <muehlbucks> well i guess that answers all my questions... i really have no desire to build in windows
[04:22:54] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: you really don't, from personal experience it's the worst thing ever :P
[04:23:14] <muehlbucks> hehe, well it's nice to know it is possible
[04:23:37] <Kev> it's a lot easier than it was with <=0.10
[04:23:38] <ALok> yay for audio processing...
[04:23:51] <ALok> taking all my ram and hdd
[04:23:55] <ALok> and almost all my cpu
[04:24:01] <muehlbucks> yeah i wasn't about to get anywhere near qt3 windows building
[04:24:09] <Kev> I did
[04:24:12] <Kev> using mingw :o
[04:24:19] <Kev> it was the work of a day
[04:24:21] <Kev> not fun
[04:24:45] <ALok> so yea... can someone confirm for me that norman does not use mingw?
[04:24:49] <muehlbucks> what does the Xscreensaver extension do?
[04:25:04] <c00i90wn> ALok: he uses mingw
[04:25:10] <ALok> muehlbucks: i belive it sets your status along with xscreensaver
[04:25:18] <muehlbucks> that's what i figured
[04:25:26] <ALok> c00i90wn: what msvcp71d?
[04:25:35] <muehlbucks> but the config script never finds it
[04:25:47] <Kev> perhaps you don't have it :)
[04:25:51] <muehlbucks> nor have i seen any options related to screensaver
[04:26:00] <c00i90wn> ALok: it's needed although it's compiled with mingw
[04:26:11] <ALok> ?
[04:26:24] <c00i90wn> ALok: you can get it from dll-files.com I think
[04:26:34] <ALok> i got it...
[04:26:38] <ALok> just wondering why i need it
[04:26:51] <Kev> c00i90wn: that does sound rather like not being compiled entirely with mingw
[04:27:20] <c00i90wn> Kev: Qt4 does not let you compile without mingw unless you are paying for it
[04:27:27] <Kev> it does
[04:27:34] <Kev> you can patch Qt
[04:27:37] <Kev> and many people do
[04:27:42] <muehlbucks> Kev: any progress on the plugin system?
[04:28:02] <c00i90wn> yes, true, perhaps he patched it
[04:28:18] <Kev> muehlbucks: you could compile it and find out if you wanted
[04:28:22] <muehlbucks> i've always wanted a karamba buddylist on my desktop.. thought about writing one with Kopete/DCOP/python
[04:28:22] <Kev> since it's in mainline
[04:28:24] <c00i90wn> ALok: the best to figure out how is he compiling them is to download the norman's build scripts
[04:28:28] <Kev> but I'd strongly recommend not doing so
[04:28:41] <muehlbucks> does it need to be enabled?
[04:28:42] <Kev> indeed, go as far as request you don't, I think
[04:28:44] <Kev> yes
[04:28:56] <Kev> anyway
[04:29:03] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: I too do strongly recommend not doing so
[04:29:23] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: I had a lot of problems with it enabled :)
[04:29:23] <muehlbucks> yeah, i'm not that adventurous
[04:29:34] <muehlbucks> i just miss my avatars, remote control, and muc
[04:29:40] <c00i90wn> muehlbucks: Lots of psi crashes :D
[04:29:59] <ALok> did anyone figure out the tabbed chat thing?
[04:30:15] <Kev> right now
[04:30:17] <Kev> I am off to bed ;)
[04:30:29] <c00i90wn> Kev: cya, good luck
[04:30:43] <muehlbucks> thanks kev
[04:30:46] <c00i90wn> ALok: not yet
[04:30:55] <Kev> nn
[04:31:07] <c00i90wn> ALok: no one tried to (yet)
[04:33:30] <muehlbucks> brb
[04:33:35] muehlbucks leaves the room
[04:33:49] c00i90wn is going to sleep too
[04:36:35] muehlbucks joins the room
[04:36:40] <muehlbucks> sweet
[04:36:45] <muehlbucks> i'm back in qt4 style
[04:36:51] <ALok> brb
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[04:40:14] <iono> Does it hurt when I do this?
[04:40:29] <ALok> no iono
[04:45:19] <IceRAM> good night all
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[05:33:52] <halr9000> hey "all"
[05:33:57] <halr9000> where all is actually one person
[05:34:09] <マチェック> I'm here ;)
[05:34:15] <halr9000> aha sneaky
[06:13:22] <ALok> i used to have the nick "all" registered on the Rizon irc network
[06:13:35] ALok is install Xubuntu on a machine...
[06:20:06] <ALok> i thought i had a hdd problem
[06:20:09] <ALok> i got a new hdd...
[06:20:16] <ALok> then during install i had other problems
[06:20:22] <ALok> bleh
[06:20:30] <ALok> i am testing the ram...
[06:20:34] <ALok> but if that is ok...
[06:20:50] <ALok> i dunno what could be wrong...
[06:20:58] <ALok> maybe i just happen to burn a bad cd
[06:21:00] <ALok> :(
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[06:53:40] <ALok> i think the ide bug is blown
[06:53:43] <ALok> bus*
[06:59:02] <halr9000> ugh
[06:59:12] <halr9000> i have a dead system...sorta works
[06:59:18] <halr9000> linux will install and run ok for a while
[06:59:20] <halr9000> windows won't install at all
[06:59:30] <halr9000> i think its the mobo or cpu but just hadn't had time to narrow it down
[07:03:19] <ALok> i check my ram, it was ok
[07:03:28] <ALok> i replaced the hdd
[07:03:49] <ALok> i run the cd check on ubuntu install...
[07:03:50] <ALok> fails
[07:03:52] <ALok> on a good cd
[07:04:04] <ALok> last hard drive was full of erros
[07:04:11] <ALok> i think my mobo is dead
[07:04:20] <ALok> agp is dead
[07:04:33] <ALok> and i think ide is now failing
[07:04:40] <ALok> well i need to sleep
[07:04:42] <ALok> and think about this later
[07:04:49] <ALok> and buy a new computer :(
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[09:54:21] <Restle> Help!
[09:55:21] <Restle> How to make active text field by default in new message window???
[10:05:59] <iono> bhar
[10:06:41] <Restle> what is "bhar" ? :)
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[10:45:37] <BartVB> Restle: iono is a bot :)
[10:45:37] <BartVB> and a crazy one at that
[10:45:53] <Restle> I know :)
[10:46:05] <iono> SILENCE#$##%$!#~#^#$^Â£@
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[11:02:00] <albert> ALok: or just the cables? did you try to replace them?
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[11:15:53] <Restle> remko?
[11:16:10] <remko> yes ?
[11:16:27] <Restle> Do U cnow how to fix? :)
[11:16:49] <Restle> By default in message window
[11:16:53] <remko> you mean you don't want the subject to be default, but the text field ?
[11:17:02] <Restle> Yes :)
[11:17:02] <remko> why ? your message needs a text field, right ?
[11:17:13] <remko> if not, you're plainly chatting, and you should use chats ?
[11:18:04] <Restle> I don't like chats :)
[11:18:12] <remko> then use subjects ;)
[11:18:36] <Restle> Heh...
[11:18:50] <remko> i'll talk about it with kev
[11:19:12] <remko> (i know how to fix it, i introduced it ;))
[11:19:22] <Restle> Maybe some option in settings :)))
[11:19:37] <Restle> Can u ???
[11:19:50] <Restle> Tell me please :)
[11:20:19] <remko> in src/eventdlg.cpp, look for d->le_subj->setFocus, and change it by d->mle->setFocus()
[11:21:26] <Restle> if(d->le_to->text().isEmpty())
d->le_to->setFocus();
else
d->le_subj->setFocus();
[11:22:07] <Restle> d->mle ???
[11:23:35] <remko> yes
[11:23:50] <Restle> Ok.. Compilling :)))
[11:23:53] <Restle> Thanx :)
[11:30:02] <albert> I pulled the last changes into my windows checkout and it complained about a conflict in src/src.pro. It marked the whole file as in conflict.
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[11:33:04] <albert> Maybe due to linebreaks?
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[11:37:05] <remko> albert: that's weird
[11:37:31] <remko> albert: although i do not exclude that
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[11:44:59] <Restle> It works :)
[11:45:03] <remko> of course ;)
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[11:48:41] <albert> The only real changes to src/src.pro that I can think of are that I changed debug and that the version I pulled added a few lines about. I don't remember any conflict in my linux version.
[11:49:07] <albert> And a quick change doesn't show any conflicts either.
[11:49:41] <albert> Only binary files matches a substring of the conflict marker.
[11:49:47] <remko> albert: i did change something in that general area ;)
[11:50:08] <remko> i added a line DEFINES += PUBSUB_PRE18
[11:50:10] <remko> do you see it ?
[11:50:26] <albert> Yes. I kept that half of the file and changed debug again. :-)
[11:52:19] <albert> Some day I will start writing a log file of what I change. Will make it easier to find what to change. And not only for code but for everything.
[11:52:27] <remko> darcs record ;-)
[11:52:30] <albert> (. except the log, that is .)
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[12:30:24] <VxJasonxV^Work> lol @ Hal's latest entry
[12:30:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> I wonder what keyword was picked up on
[12:33:05] <BartVB> ooh, tonight is the big night :)
[12:33:59] <remko> someone should remind me
[12:34:12] <BartVB> :)
[12:34:26] <BartVB> maybe we should donate you an agenda :P
[12:34:36] <remko> heh :)
[12:34:47] <VxJasonxV^Work> big night?
[12:34:51] <VxJasonxV^Work> what's happening tonight?
[12:35:02] <VxJasonxV^Work> remko: google calendar
[12:35:07] <BartVB> Remko and Kev are getting married
[12:36:13] <VxJasonxV^Work> :O
[12:36:19] <iono> !
[12:36:31] <VxJasonxV^Work> my thoughts exactly
[12:36:47] <VxJasonxV^Work> but for now
[12:36:47] <VxJasonxV^Work> work draws me offsite
[12:36:47] <VxJasonxV^Work> that and I need something to eat
[12:36:52] <VxJasonxV^Work> wow, that was buffered...
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[13:18:07] <bobber> hello
[13:18:22] <albert> Good morning.
[13:18:51] <bobber> have u use socks proxy with psi?
[13:19:39] <albert> I don't think i have use for a proxy. What features would one give me?
[13:20:54] <bobber> how u transfer file when u a behind firewalls?
[13:21:55] <albert> I have a firewall, but it is not doing any evil NAT.
[13:23:20] <bobber> i could transfer file even behind firewall, just use socks5 proxy
[13:25:29] <bobber> This functions is handy, but i thought psi should auto set proxy in you accout if psi find socks5 bytestream server via service discovery
[13:28:56] <iono> my knee is hurting =[
[13:33:03] <remko> bobber: no, proxies are not discovered automatically yet, you have to enter the name of the proxy manually
[13:42:03] <bobber> yes, i know it, but It would be nice, that psi can automatically configure the data transfer proxy
[13:42:30] <bobber> just as http://flyspray.psi-im.org/task/537?histring=Data%20Transfer%20Proxy&tasks=last
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[13:46:46] <xlony> hi
[13:48:17] <bobber> good morning
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[13:58:57] <bobber> bye
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[14:25:55] <iono> super
[14:31:39] Kev leaves the room: Computer went to sleep
[14:36:24] <albert> Hmm. I consider opening a new task on flyspray.
[14:36:35] <albert> About the flyspray task filing policy.
[14:36:42] <albert> Without discussing it on the forums. ;-)
[14:37:41] <VxJasonxV^Work> rofl
[14:44:38] <albert> Serious suggestion: If there are many duplicate bugs filed, just prevent all but the flyspray administrators from opening new tasks so the only way is from the forums.
[14:44:48] <albert> On the other hand, then there will be more duplicates on the forums instead...
[14:48:36] Kev joins the room
[14:49:36] <VxJasonxV^Work> people are just stupid
[14:49:38] <VxJasonxV^Work> that's about all there is to it :)
[14:55:58] <Kev> hoorah
[14:56:03] <Kev> ram for my mac mini is here :)
[14:56:23] <BartVB> cool :)
[14:56:28] <Kev> so nightly builds for osx shall resume shortly
[14:56:36] <Kev> BartVB: you saw what happened?
[14:56:44] <BartVB> yup
[14:56:47] <Kev> someone /donated/ memory to get the builds going again
[14:56:50] <Kev> unbelievable
[14:57:05] <BartVB> R.H :)
[14:57:06] <BartVB> hehe
[14:57:09] <albert> Didn't they donate memory?
[14:57:14] <BartVB> he could just build it himself :)
[14:57:15] <albert> Ah sorry too tired.
[14:57:25] <albert> I read your message as they donated money for memory.
[14:57:31] <VxJasonxV^Work> That was fast
[14:57:31] <VxJasonxV^Work> that was just today...
[14:57:53] <Kev> anyway
[14:57:55] <Kev> food beckons!
[14:58:37] <Kev> but I'm overjoyed that someone cares about Psi enough to put up some money to maintain the builds
[14:58:40] <Kev> brb
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[15:32:31] <BartVB> BTW I've taken a look at the MySQL config on the forums server
[15:32:43] <BartVB> that config was, hmm, Bad was an understatement
[15:32:45] <Kev> yeah, hal said you'd helpd
[15:32:47] <Kev> thanks :)
[15:32:48] <BartVB> abysmal comes close :)
[15:33:12] <BartVB> curious if the changes are going to help, they should :)
[15:33:23] <Kev> well, Hal's really a windows admin, not a *nix server admin by trade
[15:37:02] <BartVB> yeah
[15:37:14] <BartVB> a virtual machine running CentOS on a windows box
[15:37:16] <BartVB> jikes :)
[15:38:39] <remko> BartVB: what was bad about the mysql config itself ?
[15:38:45] <Nyco> aouch, does Psi need some hosting?
[15:38:47] <remko> BartVB: not that i have ever seen it, but honest curiosity
[15:38:51] <BartVB> it was very close to empty :)
[15:39:00] <BartVB> so everything was running with default settings
[15:39:01] <remko> BartVB: isn't the default at least 'ok' ?
[15:39:12] <remko> BartVB: examples of what is wrong ?
[15:39:12] <BartVB> which are appropriate for a 386 with 16MB memory :)
[15:39:54] <BartVB> main problem was that all buffers were really tiny
[15:40:19] <remko> BartVB: is there a way to see how well buffers perform etc. ?
[15:40:29] <BartVB> keybuffer (main thing for normal MySQL installs) was set to 8MB, you want that to contain all indices on all used databases. Same thing with the sort buffers etc.
[15:40:44] <BartVB> mytop is nice
[15:40:50] <BartVB> mysqlreport is also a nice tool
[15:40:57] <BartVB> or you can calculate some ratios yourself
[15:41:19] <remko> i don't have mysqlreport
[15:41:40] <remko> BartVB: anyway, i think the main problem would be that it runs inside a VM :D
[15:41:49] <BartVB> show status like 'Key_%';
[15:41:57] <Kev> a slow vm, specifically
[15:42:10] <Kev> if it was in zen or such it probably wouldn't be bad at all
[15:42:35] <BartVB> that should give you key_read_requests and key_reads (same for writes). YOu want the ratio between those to to be 1000 or more. Otherwise you're in trouble :)
[15:42:51] <BartVB> One of my servers (that hosts more than one site) uses vserver-linux.org
[15:42:53] <Kev> remko: the problem with all the buffers is that you need a decent amount of memory for them, so if you're on a box with limited ram ;)
[15:42:54] <BartVB> pretty nice stuff
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[15:42:59] <BartVB> and almost native speed
[15:43:12] <BartVB> the box has 1GB available for some MySQL and Apache :)
[15:43:17] <remko> Kev: i know *that*
[15:43:30] <BartVB> so MySQL can definately be assigned more than the approx 20MB it had :)
[15:43:45] <BartVB> but the load was pretty high on the box according to Hal
[15:44:07] <BartVB> no clue what it's running exactly but a lot of 0.8 with just a few smaller sites is pretty high.
[15:44:15] <BartVB> so it wouldn't surprise me if the VM really is slow :)
[15:44:18] <Kev> BartVB: it's running a VM :)
[15:44:22] <Kev> yeah, it is
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[15:44:50] <BartVB> but I don't really see why it's running on a VM on a Windows box :)
[15:45:08] <Kev> because Hal likes shiny things
[15:45:15] <Kev> ideally as complicated as possible :)
[15:45:18] <BartVB> If I understand correctly windows itself wasn't doing anything :)
[15:45:19] <BartVB> hehe
[15:45:22] <BartVB> he succeeded :)
[15:45:28] <Kev> indeed
[15:47:18] <albert> Do you mean linux-vserver.org?
[15:47:26] <BartVB> oh, sorry, that's the one
[15:47:34] <BartVB> keep messing up that domain name :)
[15:47:53] <BartVB> it's not a 'real' VM
[15:48:02] <BartVB> it's more like a very elaborate chroot jail :)
[15:48:27] <BartVB> it all runs on the same kernel but every virtual server has it's own IP, daemons, etc.
[15:48:29] <Kev> if it's what I think it is, it's pretty smart :)
[15:48:36] <Kev> yeah
[15:48:43] <BartVB> so there is little to no overhead
[15:48:48] <BartVB> and maintenance is a breeze
[15:49:04] <BartVB> vapt-get --all -- update
:)
[15:56:25] <Kev> :)
[15:59:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> vemerge-world
[15:59:53] <VxJasonxV^Work> linux vserver is awesome
[15:59:57] <VxJasonxV^Work> because UML is slow.
[16:00:43] <Nyco> but vserver needs heavy configuration, doesn't it?
[16:01:54] <VxJasonxV^Work> I dunno
[16:01:57] <VxJasonxV^Work> I'm not the server owner :)
[16:02:11] <VxJasonxV^Work> seeing as he manages about 20 instances between personal and work, I would wager to guess it ain't that bad
[16:02:23] <VxJasonxV^Work> I'm sure net device/hard drive allocation is the most tedious part
[16:11:13] knorg leaves the room
[16:11:51] <BartVB> setting it up is a breeze
[16:12:01] <BartVB> patch the kernel, boot with that kernel and off you go
[16:12:22] <BartVB> then it's one command to create a new vserver (copy/paste), vserver bla start, vserver bla, enter
[16:12:36] <BartVB> then you need to do the normal configuring of an install of your distro
[16:12:45] <BartVB> or you just clone an already configured vserver
[16:13:00] <VxJasonxV^Work> vserver <server> enter
[16:13:30] <VxJasonxV^Work> yeah
[16:14:23] <BartVB> I really like it
[16:15:57] <VxJasonxV^Work> ditto
[16:16:06] <VxJasonxV^Work> I enjoy it as a client/confined to a server
[16:16:08] maxi leaves the room: Disconnected
[16:16:12] <VxJasonxV^Work> v*server
[16:16:31] <Nyco> ok, I gotta test
[16:16:42] <BartVB> the main thing that I'm missing is something like 'vtop' and other tools to figure out what server is hogging your resources
[16:17:11] Kola joins the room
[16:18:22] <Kola> some server have logging...
[16:18:31] <Kola> to log cpu time usage for each user
[16:18:42] <Kola> and what programs are using the most cpu
[16:20:44] <Kola> http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/top/aol-wants-to-sell-%22internet%22-to-the-dead-182185.php
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[16:36:05] Norman joins the room
[16:36:56] <LRN> Hello, Norman. You're THAT Norman, from http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/dl/psi/ ?
[16:37:02] <Norman> yep
[16:37:38] <remko> Norman: *always* first ask 'why?'
[16:37:56] <Norman> why?
[16:38:04] <LRN> Will it be annoying to you if i ask for new psi Win32 builds? :>
[16:38:25] <Norman> there are already new win32 psi builds
[16:38:45] LRN checked page again
[16:39:09] <LRN> No, nothing new, as far as i can see. The http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/dl/psi/psi-mainline-20060618051639-win32.zip is the last i could find.
[16:39:21] <Norman> that's only 2 days old
[16:39:39] <Nyco> oh yes, please!
[16:39:43] <LRN> There was a LOT of fixes since :)
[16:39:54] <Norman> heh,
[16:40:11] <LRN> Some of them i saw personally, while sitting here
[16:40:13] <Norman> my pc has been out of action, moving around, etc
[16:40:22] <Nyco> lag...
[16:40:36] <Norman> I'll probably look at doing a new build when it's back together,
[16:40:55] <Norman> hopefully in the next few days
[16:42:03] <Norman> btw: didn't the patch contributer used to appear in the patch title in the RSS feed?
[16:42:12] <Norman> or was that maybe a jabber.ru feature?
[16:42:18] <Norman> I'm not sure where it's changed
[16:42:40] <remko> Norman: the darcs rss feed ?
[16:42:43] <Norman> yea
[16:42:49] <remko> Norman: well, it's still there in the <author> tag no ?
[16:42:53] <Norman> via psi-mainline@rss.jabber.ru
[16:43:01] <remko> Norman: i removed the author from the title
[16:43:38] <Norman> on around the 10th?
[16:43:44] <Norman> 09 Jun 20:06 - New options system now in place (Kevin Smith)
[16:43:49] <Norman> 14 Jun 08:49 - [IrisNet] More fixes.
[16:43:59] <remko> Norman: possible
[16:44:03] <remko> Norman: i know i changed it :)
[16:44:09] <Norman> cool okay
[16:44:16] <remko> i *could* re-add it
[16:44:27] <Norman> so I should bug the jabber.ru ppl to read the author and send it via xmpp
[16:46:05] <Kola> hey Norman can you sort something out for me? do you not use mingw?
[16:46:22] <Norman> Kola: I'm using vc7, but my build machine is offline atm,
[16:46:28] <Norman> I set up a friends pc with mingw
[16:46:42] <Norman> brb, lunch
[16:46:47] <Kola> ah, yea, i was wondering where msvcp71d came from :)
[16:47:00] <Kola> i guess that answers it
[16:47:09] <Norman> it comes from microsoft
[16:47:14] <Kola> ;)
[16:47:31] <Norman> and people are not allowed to redistribute it
[16:51:22] <LRN> But we don't redistribute it! We just copy :)
[16:51:32] <Kola> what is this "Psi.pdb"?
[16:51:43] <LRN> Psi project database, i think
[16:51:53] <Kola> is it necessary??
[16:51:57] <Kola> its like 13MB
[16:52:59] <LRN> I think it contains dirty patches, used breakpoints and all those empty beer bottles developers drink in the process...
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[17:00:02] <psidekick> Kevin Smith: Hardware donation. - Much to my suprise, a shadowy anonymous figure in the Psi MUC (who didn’t want to be publically acknowledged) yesterday asked when the Mac nightly builds would be back, as Remko can’t make them anymore, and when I replied that I needed replacement RAM for my mac mini before I could do that bought me some. The generosity was much appreciated and the RAM arrived at work today, so I’ll be attempting to get the nightlies back up (undoubtedly with Remko’s assistance) in the very near future (the box needs a reformat, since the old corrupt RAM wrecked things somewhat).
Hoorah for harware donations to support OSS! (Following this news, Remko’s told me that he wouldn’t say no to an intel mac mini to test universal support on (come to think of it, I wouldn’t say no to an iMac for the same reason ) ). Somewhat more seriously, this was a very helpful donation that’ll improve the state of Psi by bringing back nightly mac builds and that’s a good thing.
Thank you shadowy anonymous user
- http://www.kismith.co.uk/wordpress/index.php/2006/06/21/new-ram-2/
[17:01:26] <Kola> heh
[17:01:33] <iono> =]
[17:01:43] <Kola> iono...
[17:02:02] BartVB joins the room
[17:02:40] <VxJasonxV^Work> psidekick needs to trim after 100 characters
[17:02:48] <Kev> yeah
[17:02:50] <Kola> nah
[17:02:54] <Kola> i think its ok
[17:02:55] <Kev> remind me and I'll fix it
[17:02:57] <Kev> but not right now
[17:03:07] <Kola> could just cut all the body text out...
[17:03:14] <Kola> if you are gonna cut some of it..
[17:03:40] <Kev> I don't know, you can usually tell from the first 100 chars or so if you want to read on
[17:04:07] slubman leaves the room
[17:04:11] <Kev> anyway, there's worse ways to flood the room :)
[17:04:23] slubman joins the room
[17:06:44] <albert> Yeah. Imagine someone sending Unicode R-to-L override chars.
[17:06:44] <albert> ;)
[17:06:51] <iono> =)
[17:06:54] <VxJasonxV^Work> XD
[17:06:55] <VxJasonxV^Work> oh man
[17:06:58] <VxJasonxV^Work> that would piss me off
[17:07:13] <Kola> some how that doesn't seem to be "flood"ing
[17:07:27] <LRN> This was funny ;)
[17:07:37] <Kev> no, it wasn't
[17:08:34] Nyco joins the room
[17:09:44] <LRN> readme.txt in qt/lib/ says: "If this directory is empty, you probably forgot to compile the Qt library." :)
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[17:36:28] <Kola> what is "g"
[17:36:48] <Kola> i was looking at the line "g.pathProfiles"
[17:36:59] <Kola> and i can't figure out what "g" is
[17:37:17] <Kola> in the profile stuff
[17:37:28] <Kev> give me a line and a file
[17:38:10] <Kola> /src/psi_profiles.cpp
[17:38:34] <Kola> let say for example 1806
[17:38:41] <Kola> however g is used throughout the file
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[17:40:52] <Kev> the answer is in common.h
[17:40:56] <Kev> it's a PsiGlobal
[17:41:16] <Kola> o great...
[17:41:34] <マチェック> common.h... I used to think this is one of the most scary files in Psi ;)
[17:41:50] <マチェック> or rather: the most painful when you modify it and recompile
[17:42:15] <マチェック> now I know there are "worse" files, like xmpp.h ;)
[17:43:17] <IceRAM> :)
[17:43:46] <マチェック> hmm.. does xmpp.h include anything? let's check :)
[17:45:03] <マチェック> no, nothing interesting
[17:45:42] <Kola> here is a question, why treat windows and *nix differntly? as in <home>/PsiData and <home>/.psi
[17:46:16] <Kev> well, ultimatel all three platforms should be treatedly differently because that's the standard
[17:46:20] <remko> because Unix is not Windows
[17:46:27] <マチェック> Kola: a name starting with a dot is not something you really want to have on windows
[17:46:27] <Kev> but as it happens, we don't obey the standard on windows or mac
[17:46:33] <Kev> and it should be even more different
[17:46:37] <Kola> well i wouldn't care if it was called .psi
[17:46:47] <Kola> i dunno
[17:46:58] <remko> it should be in %APPDATA%\Psi on windows
[17:46:59] <IceRAM> .psi would look weird for a windows-only user
[17:47:07] <remko> and in ~/Library/APplication Support/Psi on mac
[17:47:08] <マチェック> Kola: it's extremely hard to create a directory named like this by hand on windows
[17:47:09] <Kola> windows users on't look in thier home
[17:47:23] <Kola> though its true... it should really go in App Data
[17:47:30] <Kola> or Loca Settings or something
[17:47:40] <IceRAM> and in $XDG_DATA_HOME/psi on Linux
[17:47:59] <Kola> ?
[17:48:02] <IceRAM> and in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/psi (also on Linux)
[17:48:24] <Kola> ?
[17:49:37] <IceRAM> freedesktop standard: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
[17:49:41] <IceRAM> freedesktop.org
[17:49:57] <IceRAM> oh...
[17:50:03] <IceRAM> and Qt4 uses that specification
[17:50:30] <IceRAM> $ cd $XDG_CONFIG_HOME
[17:50:41] <IceRAM> $ ls
FreeMat Trolltech Trolltech.conf menus psi-im.org
[17:50:50] <IceRAM> psi uses that specification indirectly :D
[17:50:58] <マチェック> BTW: is "last profile" info saved somewhere else on Qt4/Win? (somewhere else than Qt3/Win)
[17:51:00] <IceRAM> but only for storing the last opened profile
[17:51:21] <IceRAM> QSettings now obeys the basedir specification
[17:51:48] <マチェック> let's read
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[17:52:05] <IceRAM> IMO... $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/Psi should contain configuration files
[17:52:23] <IceRAM> $XDG_DATA_HOME/Psi should contain history, vcards etc.
[17:52:55] <IceRAM> there's also $XDG_CACHE_HOME for various caches
[17:53:31] <IceRAM> if everybody would obey that specification, the $HOME dir would look a lot better
[17:55:49] <IceRAM> well, but I think they will come with the great options overhaul
[17:56:00] <IceRAM> I'm just glad we have options.xml for now :)
[17:56:11] <IceRAM> (thanks Kev ;) )
[17:56:57] <IceRAM> this would also ease implementing branding [= fixed (unchangeable) options]
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[18:01:41] <Kev> btw, I'll be stripping everyone of voice tonight
[18:01:47] <Kev> nothing personal :)
[18:01:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> D
[18:01:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> D=
[18:01:48] <Kola> :(
[18:02:04] <iono> Aww.
[18:02:04] iono hugs Kola
[18:02:08] <Kola> howlong till the meeting?
[18:02:15] <iono> think happy thoughts!
[18:02:15] <Kev> 5 hoursish
[18:02:20] <VxJasonxV^Work> oh jesus
[18:02:21] <VxJasonxV^Work> the meeting
[18:02:21] <Kola> :(
[18:02:24] <VxJasonxV^Work> I totally forgot about that
[18:02:32] <VxJasonxV^Work> I'll be freaking asleep in 5 hours :(
[18:02:32] <Kola> i'm not gonna be here :(
[18:03:48] <IceRAM> I'll turn on my clock alarm
[18:03:54] <IceRAM> I'll sleep now
[18:03:58] <IceRAM> Kev: what voice?
[18:04:04] <Kev> in the muc
[18:04:06] <VxJasonxV^Work> the ability to talk
[18:04:11] <Kola> +v
[18:04:12] <Kev> you won't be able to talk
[18:04:20] <IceRAM> hmm..
[18:04:23] <Kev> on irc the ability's called voice
[18:04:24] <VxJasonxV^Work> IRC equivalent: -v +m
[18:04:24] <IceRAM> is it called voice in MUC?
[18:04:36] <IceRAM> I know the IRC equivalent
[18:04:43] <Kola> its call Participants?
[18:04:43] <IceRAM> but... how is it here?
[18:04:48] <Kev> no, it's visitor + moderated here
[18:04:53] <IceRAM> Kola: I was thinking the same
[18:05:00] <Kola> visitor = -v
[18:05:07] <Kola> participant = +v
[18:05:15] <Kola> moderator = +o
[18:05:24] <Kev> admin is +o
[18:05:25] <Kola> moderation = +m
[18:05:32] <Kev> moderater is less
[18:05:34] <Kola> whatever
[18:05:40] <Kola> moderator = +h ?
[18:05:42] <IceRAM> +m, was this in ...
[18:05:49] <IceRAM> something like a half-op?
[18:06:01] <Kola> +m is a chan mode for moderation
[18:06:04] <Norman> remko: can you change the feed's author to dc:creator ?
[18:06:11] <Kola> half op is +h
[18:06:12] <Norman> to make it more rss2.0 like
[18:06:25] <IceRAM> Kola: indeed...
[18:06:29] <Kev> anyway
[18:06:34] <Kev> you won't be able to type
[18:06:35] <IceRAM> anyway... when I'll start using this the real way
[18:06:36] <Kev> :)
[18:06:38] <Kola> :(
[18:06:46] <Kola> how do we talk to the devs?
[18:06:51] <Kev> PM
[18:06:57] <IceRAM> I'll keep a table of roles/affiliations
[18:07:04] <IceRAM> and what everybody can do next to me
[18:07:06] <Kola> then what? answer to channel?
[18:07:10] <Kev> yep
[18:07:26] <IceRAM> hmm.... that would be fun
[18:07:43] <IceRAM> :D
[18:07:43] <Kev> I'll be taking questions in PM, and then pasting them to the channel
[18:08:14] <IceRAM> I believe the mods should be in another room, discussion which one takes which question
[18:08:29] <IceRAM> :)
[18:08:39] <IceRAM> using whiteboarding for better organizing
[18:08:48] <IceRAM> hmm.. or jingle
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[18:09:25] <IceRAM> I'm quite curious to see how sync-ing would be done
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[18:09:46] マチェック joins the room
[18:10:03] <IceRAM> sync-ing.. I mean: questions <-> answers... etc.
[18:11:01] <Kev> or we could just answer the questions :)
[18:12:34] <IceRAM> well, my concern would be: if I were to say something, what if 20 people send me almost at the same time different questions on what I've last answered
[18:12:54] <Kev> then I'll ignore them
[18:14:10] <Kev> oh, hrmm
[18:14:18] <Kev> you don't mean that do you?
[18:14:23] <Kev> you mean followup questions
[18:14:28] <IceRAM> well, they're different questions
[18:14:30] <IceRAM> indeed
[18:14:54] <Kev> well, if one of them's interesting, I"ll paste that one in to answer next
[18:14:54] <IceRAM> I'm thinking of managing the influx of questions, ignoring duplicates and so on...
[18:15:13] <IceRAM> considering this is somehow clustered... on 3 devs...
[18:17:13] <Kev> 4 :)
[18:17:29] <IceRAM> that makes it 33% more difficult :D
[18:17:34] <Kola> why do java developers insist on not telling you waht a class is dependent on...
[18:17:45] <Kola> then when you try to use it you need to download another 6 packages
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[19:50:07] <albert> Is it now 190 minutes left?
[19:50:19] halr9000 joins the room
[19:50:26] <Kev> until the chat?
[19:50:28] halr9000 is idling
[19:50:45] <Kev> it's curretly almost 5pm UK time, chat starts at 8pm UK time (7PM UTC)
[20:07:06] LRN thinks that everyone who had any questiones, already asked them, because Kev and remko were here for days :)
[20:07:47] <albert> But Justin hasn't been here.
[20:08:04] <albert> And it sure is helpful to have one log to refer to instead of a whole month.
[20:08:15] <LRN> Indeed
[20:09:13] seban joins the room
[20:09:39] <Kev> I hope people will have interesting questions
[20:09:39] <Kev> about the Psi project itself
[20:10:00] <Kev> rather that simply bugs, compiling etc
[20:11:37] albert leaves the room
[20:11:43] <マチェック> Kev: could you provide a sample "interesting" question? :)
[20:11:55] <Kev> I don't know
[20:12:11] <Kev> what features do you think are blocking Psi from 1.0?
[20:12:45] <マチェック> ok, so I'll try to invent something interesting :)
[20:12:46] <Kev> can I buy remko an intel mac mini?
[20:12:47] <seban> and answer for this question is ... ?
[20:12:55] <Kev> can I buy kev an intel imac?
[20:13:09] <マチェック> seban: you'll see in 3 hours ;)
[20:13:20] <Kev> seban: ask the question in a couple of hours to see :)
[20:13:51] <seban> ok i will try to remebmer this ;-)
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[20:15:50] <マチェック> just invented sth :)
[20:19:01] stpeter joins the room
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[20:19:45] <stpeter> wow, this room is busier than the jdev room :-)
[20:19:48] remko joins the room
[20:19:50] legoscia leaves the room
[20:19:52] <stpeter> which I guess is as it should be
[20:20:01] <Kev> stpeter: it's exploded over the last fortnight
[20:20:08] <Kev> since remko added muc support, pretty much
[20:20:12] <remko> haha
[20:20:20] stpeter has always thought that the various projects should be busier than the damn JSF
[20:20:22] <remko> that's a coincidence i believe :-)
[20:20:28] <stpeter> but I'm a decentralist :-)
[20:20:45] <Kev> remko: well, it also coincided with my Snarl screenshot ..... ;)
[20:20:47] <remko> right, time to unpack this brand new drum kit
[20:20:52] <stpeter> nice!
[20:21:03] <Kev> remko: gif :(
[20:21:15] <Kev> oh, erm, that's 'give' btw
[20:22:01] <マチェック> haha, I just remembered the "how many jabber clients have you ever used" pool, and one very special answer :)
[20:22:06] <Kev> heh
[20:22:14] <Kev> "I'm Peter St-Andre"? :)
[20:22:18] <マチェック> yes :)
[20:22:31] legoscia joins the room
[20:23:22] <マチェック> looks like stpeter is not very popular in jabber community, because only one person picked this answer ;)
[20:23:44] <Kev> heh
[20:24:11] <remko> the mystery of why this kit is so compact is solved: they just embedded all drums inside each other
[20:24:20] <remko> i was worried they left out a box or 2
[20:24:39] <Kev> heh
[20:24:48] <Kev> or you'd ordered a kit like mine
[20:25:01] <Kev> where you can embed the drums within each other and still be flatpack :)
[20:25:01] <remko> that's not a kit :-)
[20:25:09] <remko> that's a series of rims
[20:25:12] <remko> :)
[20:25:14] <Kev> has shells too
[20:25:17] <Kev> just very very small ones
[20:25:22] <remko> ;-)
[20:26:23] <マチェック> remko: are you planning to use these drums while introducing devs tonight? :)
[20:26:36] <Kev> heh
[20:26:45] albert joins the room
[20:26:48] <remko> impossible, i'm not allowed to make noise here
[20:26:58] <Kev> I still think mblsha should learn to play some instrument and the devs form a band
[20:27:01] <iono> Alors.
[20:27:09] <remko> holy smoke, my server has been up for 1 hour, and already spammers are trying to relay mail through it
[20:27:16] <remko> how do they do it, just guess ip's ?
[20:27:19] <Kev> oh, heh, I guess I should mute iono too :)
[20:27:22] <Kev> remko: yes
[20:27:41] <Kev> portscan ip ranges for mail servers
[20:27:46] <Kev> then try them as open relays
[20:28:00] <remko> i don't think they portscanned, they just try SMTP i would think
[20:28:13] <remko> portscan, is that the equivalent of service discovery ? :)
[20:29:11] <Kev> not really
[20:29:23] <Kev> it's the equivalent of knocking on doors until someone answers
[20:29:50] xlony leaves the room
[20:31:01] <マチェック> it's equivalent of sending all possible iq queries without checking entity's supported features first
[20:34:04] <Kev> yeah
[20:35:03] bear joins the room
[20:36:52] <bear> Kev - I noticed in your recent blog post about needing intel mac to do builds on. While I am not able to donate one to the cause, I can run builds as needed on my intel mac if that helps
[20:37:27] <Kev> bear: thanks
[20:37:34] <マチェック> rpcinfo could be something like service discovery
[20:37:36] <Kev> I have various friends also who can do that :)
[20:37:46] <remko> not only friends
[20:37:50] <Kev> the 'needing' was rather tongue-in-cheek
[20:37:50] <remko> i could do that as well
[20:38:05] <Kev> remko: yeah, you're not a friend, uech
[20:38:10] <bear> kev - ok, just wanted to offer - I do the builds for my company and also for some other OSS projects - it's my day job :)
[20:38:11] <remko> Kev: my point exactly
[20:38:13] sneakin joins the room
[20:38:59] <Kev> bear: thanks :)
[20:39:44] <Kev> bear: someone donated ram for my mac mini, so I'm recovering everything on that ready to reformat and set it to make universal nightlies ;)
[20:40:26] <bear> Kev: that's the blog post I read and then I remembered your earlier one about a muc room - so figured I would join to ask
[20:40:27] <マチェック> bear: now is the moment when you start suspecting that Kev is looking for a new mac, rather than a way to build psi ;)
[20:40:38] <Kev> hehe
[20:40:41] <bear> :)
[20:40:46] <Kev> that's no secret
[20:40:48] <iono> :o)
[20:40:56] <remko> everyone is looking for a new mac
[20:41:04] <remko> not everyone realizes it or dares to admit it
[20:41:11] <Kev> using a 1.6ghz G4 with only half a gig as your main machine is painful ;)
[20:41:18] <bear> ouch!
[20:41:21] <Kev> but all I /needed/ to make builds was more ram
[20:41:28] <albert> Anyone considered porting Psi to zOS? ;)
[20:41:55] <Kev> which is why I'm currently using the tremendous power of http://synergy2.sf.net to control my pb and my mini at once :)
[20:42:33] <Kev> so much stuff got corrupted on my mini from the bad ram I had before :(
[20:42:43] <bear> I use that also - so I can control my pb, mb, g5 and ubuntu boxes
[20:43:03] <VxJasonxV^Work> synergy2 ROCKS
[20:43:03] <VxJasonxV^Work> hell yes
[20:43:17] <Kev> bear: that's a lot of monitors :)
[20:43:39] <bear> Kev: yes - all LCD's except one
[20:43:59] <bear> since builds are my day job I spend a lot of time watching logs scroll by on them all
[20:44:58] <Kev> heh
[20:45:04] <iono> ;)
[20:47:31] <Kev> importing 1600 photos from my mini to my pb so I can clear them from the mini
[20:47:44] <Kev> I'm going to run out of disk space on the pb in just a moment, I'm sure
[20:48:23] <albert> Just add another disk and extend the pool.
[20:48:35] <Kev> adding disks to a pb is rather hard :)
[20:48:58] <bear> i ended up using samba and dumping stuff to one of the basement servers
[20:50:02] VxJasonxV^Work leaves work
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[20:50:04] <Kev> yeah, I'll probably end up doing that onto my windows box
[20:50:14] <Kev> or onto my firewall
[20:50:26] <Kev> but setting up samba on a firewall seems a very bad idea™
[20:50:34] <bear> for that I would tarball them - less chance windows will have to much with the attributes
[20:50:49] <マチェック> Kev: photos on a firewall? they could burn easily ;)
[20:50:57] bear laughs
[20:51:17] <マチェック> bear: to make a tarball, you'd need some free space first
[20:51:30] <Kev> nah
[20:51:34] <bear> ooo - excellent point
[20:51:54] <Kev> you can pipe over ssh
[20:52:00] <マチェック> hmm.. or maybe you delete a file just after it is included in the tarball?
[20:52:13] <albert> I don't like the term "firewall".
[20:52:25] <albert> In most cases they are not firewalls but more like fences.
[20:53:09] <マチェック> albert: if most of students are lazy, would you also like to stop calling them "students"?
[20:53:31] <albert> No.
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[21:36:18] <Dandys> hi all
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[21:39:57] <IceRAM> hmm..
[21:40:06] <IceRAM> I have a feeling topics are abused
[21:40:18] <IceRAM> they often contain tons of information, not just a topic
[21:40:41] <IceRAM> maybe MUC should be extended to include a "desc" tag somewhere
[21:41:10] <hawke > It has one, doesn't it?
[21:41:13] <hawke > the problem is that it's not shown by default
[21:41:24] <IceRAM> well, I admit that I haven't read the JEP
[21:41:27] <hawke > It's part of service discovery...
[21:41:53] <IceRAM> but... for my entire life... I've seen very very very long topics on IRC
[21:42:07] <IceRAM> except for the times when ChanServ/X etc. bots existed
[21:42:33] <IceRAM> and they send notification messages on join contains info like: "room language: English etc etc etc"
[21:43:17] <hawke > Ah
[21:43:19] <マチェック> IceRAM: imagine psidekick sending you a priv message every time you join
[21:43:24] <hawke > Like a room motd, yeah?
[21:43:25] <マチェック> and new window opening...
[21:44:57] <Florob> I don't really think this "abuse" is that bad. At least I haven't seen any topics that are as long as what ChanServ bots have told me.
[21:46:03] <hawke > more of the stuff e.g. in this room's topic should be discoverable
[21:46:14] <hawke > like "room logs" should be a link
[21:46:33] <hawke > I mean, a normal part of every room which has room logging enabled
[21:46:43] <hawke > preferred language too
[21:47:13] <IceRAM> マチェック: I'm not sure that MUC has support for notifications... as they were on IRC (notification != chat message, usually displayed inline - in all the windows you are in etc.)
[21:47:39] <マチェック> Oh, i'm not IRC expert, really
[21:48:15] <IceRAM> I've used it intensively in highschool, I've even written a client/bot in C++ for it...
[21:48:25] <IceRAM> it was the first protocol I really looked into
[21:48:32] <Kev> if it makes you feel better
[21:48:38] <Kev> s/topic/motd/
[21:48:54] <Florob> hawke, like metdata for MUCs?
[21:49:22] <hawke > yup, pretty much
[21:49:29] <IceRAM> then.. the edit box should be a textarea (I've kept asking myself why it isn't like this every time I've opened it with the topic in here)
[21:49:45] <hawke > iceram, yes it does have support for notifications, just not any user can send them.
[21:49:59] <IceRAM> the answer came to my mind rapidly: because it's a TOPIC.. and topics are short :)
[21:51:21] <IceRAM> 9 mins remaning by my calculations
[21:51:28] <IceRAM> getting ready
[21:52:04] <マチェック> 9 min to what?
[21:52:26] <remko> my calculations say one hour and 9 minutes ;)
[21:52:37] <マチェック> IceRAM: I think you forgot daylight saving time ;)
[21:52:55] <IceRAM> hmm...
[21:53:00] <IceRAM> I don't know how I've calculated
[21:53:12] <マチェック> :)
[21:53:14] <IceRAM> I just remembered that it's 21:00 local time... and forgot about the announcement
[21:53:35] <IceRAM> now that you mention it... I do remember it's 19:00 UTC.. right
[21:53:38] <IceRAM> one more hour
[21:56:43] <Florob> if i may ask this somewhat offtopic question. if GMT has been replaced by UTC (according to wikipedia), and UTC is calculated differently (as i understand it) why do they still seem to be the same?
[21:56:57] <Kev> they're almost identical
[21:57:04] <Kev> just that one's atomic and one's lunar, or such
[21:57:08] <Kev> I forget the details
[21:57:36] Dandys leaves the room
[21:57:39] <sneakin> UTC gets a little bump at the end of the year. it's only a few seconds.
[21:57:40] <hawke > solar
[21:57:45] <hawke > not lunar
[21:57:53] slubman leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[21:57:53] slubman joins the room
[21:58:16] <hawke > hey, where do emoticon jisps go?
[21:58:50] IceRAM leaves the room
[21:59:26] deucalion joins the room
[22:00:38] <hawke > ~/.psi/ ...something
[22:01:03] <Kev> emoticons p
[22:01:05] <Kev> :p
[22:01:05] IceRAM joins the room
[22:01:30] <hawke > hmm, that doesn't help. :-p
[22:01:32] <slubman> they are not working in the dev version ?
[22:02:06] <remko> iconsets/emoticons
[22:02:44] <slubman> ~/.psi/iconsets
[22:03:24] <hawke > thanks
[22:06:11] マチェック leaves the room
[22:06:15] マチェック joins the room
[22:07:10] deucalion leaves the room
[22:07:24] deucalion joins the room
[22:09:52] <マチェック> hawke : you have tricky nicks today :)
[22:13:36] <hawke > I do?
[22:13:40] <hawke > And you don't?
[22:13:54] <Kev> please think of some interesting questions guys :)
[22:14:02] <Kev> this event will be very boring if there's no questions ;)
[22:14:11] <hawke > I wonder how to get alternate input methods into Psi/qt4
[22:15:07] <slubman> Kev: don't bother, i'va some qestions/requests :)
[22:15:19] <slubman> s/va/have/
[22:15:25] <Kev> well, if it's feature requests, this isn't the place :)
[22:15:31] <slubman> :(
[22:15:51] マチェック leaves the room
[22:15:55] <Kev> I want interesting questions about Psi, or teh devs, or the plans for the future etc etc
[22:16:25] <Kev> or why I make so many typos
[22:16:28] マチェック joins the room
[22:17:12] <マチェック> why do my DSL have to crash now??:
[22:17:40] <マチェック> hawke : it is quite confusing to see 2 items with "same" name, and moreover having different statuses ;)
[22:17:57] <マチェック> hawke : what input methods do you need?
[22:18:01] <hawke > マチェック: Ah, they're not the same though. :)
[22:18:12] <マチェック> this is why I wrote "same"
[22:18:13] <hawke > I'd like Japanese; I have it working in Gnome, but not in QT4
[22:18:14] <マチェック> with "
[22:18:17] <hawke > I know. ;-)
[22:18:26] <マチェック> hawke : how poor
[22:18:34] <マチェック> I think it works fine on windows
[22:18:38] <マチェック> but I can check once more
[22:18:39] <hawke > :-p
[22:18:49] <hawke > It probably does work fine on Windows.
[22:19:51] <Florob> hawke: wouldn't gnome use QT4 for psi too?
[22:21:17] <hawke > Florob: presumably. Hence my statement that it doesn't work in Qt4 apps like Psi, but does work in gnome apps
[22:24:18] <slubman> i downgrade from Qt 4.1.3 to Qt 4.12, and i've nbever seen psi 0.11 so stable and usable
[22:24:34] <slubman> does Qt dev had smoked when they released Qt 4.1.3 ?
[22:24:39] <Florob> doesn't skim or something work (well in my experience it doesn't but scim (in gnome) didn't either so i blamed it on stupidity)
[22:25:13] Neustradamus joins the room
[22:25:40] <Neustradamus> Hi all
[22:26:03] <Kev> hi
[22:26:14] <remko> slubman: there's a bug in Qt 4.1.3's Qt3Support yeah
[22:26:30] <Neustradamus> dev team --> I participe in Jabbin
[22:26:41] <Kev> I know
[22:26:46] <Kev> :)
[22:26:51] <Neustradamus> cool ;)
[22:26:54] <iono> =]
[22:26:56] <Kev> but we won't hold that against you
[22:27:07] <Neustradamus> I'm french
[22:27:17] <Kev> I know
[22:27:23] <Kev> but we won't hold that against you either
[22:27:25] <マチェック> remko: maybe trolltech wants to "advice" people to finally drop qt3support this way? ;)
[22:27:54] <Neustradamus> :D
[22:28:30] Marcho joins the room
[22:28:30] <remko> believe me, if we could, we would
[22:28:56] <マチェック> remko: yes, I understand, don't worry
[22:29:13] <Neustradamus> it's possible to have to you in my contacts? Kev remko halr9000 ?
[22:29:25] <remko> Neustradamus: sure
[22:29:28] <slubman> [20:27:17] <Neustradamus> I'm french
[20:27:27] <Kev> I know
[20:27:33] <Kev> but we won't hold that against you either >> a problem with french guys ?
[22:29:33] <remko> Neustradamus: http://el-tramo.be/contact
[22:29:36] <Kev> slubman: read up
[22:30:14] <マチェック> haha, remko, you're not to friendly ;) (Error 404 - Not Found)
[22:30:15] <Neustradamus> --> http://psi-im.org/authors
[22:30:20] <remko> haha
[22:30:24] <remko> http://el-tramo.be/about then
[22:30:25] <iono> Silence!
[22:30:32] <remko> gosh darn it
[22:30:40] <remko> about/contact perhaps ?
[22:30:57] <remko> oh wait, i still have a web proxy on
[22:31:23] <remko> about was right :)
[22:33:37] <remko> Neustradamus: you took the wrong JID ;-)
[22:34:09] <Kev> heh, you're running the same version of Jabbin as SG
[22:34:19] <remko> google.com 0.10 ? :)
[22:34:20] <Neustradamus> remko: :(
[22:34:25] <Kev> pretending to be google.com 0.10
[22:34:30] <remko> Neustradamus: don't worry, i won't leave it soon
[22:34:32] <Kev> because you took Psi code :)
[22:35:04] Florian joins the room
[22:35:55] <Florian> Hello Everybody !
[22:36:16] <Neustradamus> remko: ok
[22:36:21] <BartVB> hola florian :)
[22:36:32] <Neustradamus> bonjour Florian ;)
[22:36:36] <マチェック> haha, I made some stupid mistake and generated 20MB diff file :)
[22:38:08] <Neustradamus> which are the countries represented here ?
[22:38:38] BartVB doesn't see his queen :)
[22:42:53] <IceRAM> Neustradamus: (from what I know, from top to bottom) UK, USA, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Romania (this would be me), South Africa, Poland... + others which I don't know/I've missed
[22:43:09] <Florian> Germany
[22:43:32] <IceRAM> and.. we might be lucky to have Australia with us
[22:43:35] Norman@Home joins the room
[22:43:40] G-Lo joins the room
[22:43:43] <マチェック> Kev: you can use iono to "paste" questions to the chatroom while it is moderated. I know that people can tell the difference between you pasting a question and answering it, but maybe it would look... nicer :)
[22:43:49] <Norman@Home> lo all,
[22:43:50] <IceRAM> but I'm not sure they wake up so early
[22:44:09] <Neustradamus> IceRAM: ok ;)
[22:44:15] <seban> from Poland are 2 persons I think
[22:44:37] <Kev> I intend starting a seperate instance of me to be messaged questions, andto repeat them here
[22:45:06] <Norman@Home> heh, like I forgot to disconnect from my work resource
[22:45:18] <Norman@Home> it's starting in 15min right?
[22:45:22] <Kev> yeah norm
[22:45:29] <マチェック> "Kev and his dual-core brain" :)
[22:45:37] JLP joins the room
[22:45:50] <Kev> heh
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[22:47:02] <mblsha> hi :)
[22:47:14] <マチェック> mblsha san konbanwa :)
[22:47:20] <IceRAM> countries += COUNTRY_RUSSIA
[22:47:46] <マチェック> IceRAM: countries << Russia ;P
[22:47:53] <IceRAM> oh.. right
[22:48:01] <IceRAM> it really depends what operator you overload
[22:48:22] <マチェック> I think Qt lists use <<, not +=
[22:48:29] <mblsha> boh
[22:48:31] <mblsha> *both
[22:48:44] <マチェック> ok, so... Psi devs use << ;)
[22:48:54] <マチェック> at least I remember << more
[22:48:57] <remko> i use +=
[22:49:09] <マチェック> hmm
[22:49:19] <マチェック> maybe my memory is not as good as it used to be...
[22:49:22] <IceRAM> justin uses << I think
[22:49:32] <マチェック> as, so this is why
[22:49:33] <remko> fwiw, everybody uses << but me ;-)
[22:50:03] <remko> i prefer adding a string to a stringlist then sending a string to a stringlist
[22:50:04] <マチェック> now I understand why remko writes so much code
[22:50:08] EiFFeL joins the room
[22:50:29] <remko> or streaming strings to lists
[22:50:29] <マチェック> he's just one, but he wants += to appear more often than << ;)
[22:51:17] stpeter leaves the room
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[22:51:20] <Norman@Home> heh
[22:51:32] deucalion joins the room
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[22:51:39] remko leaves the room
[22:51:47] <Kev> stpeter hates us :o
[22:51:54] SKaRCHa joins the room
[22:52:00] <マチェック> Norman@Home: don't worry, my stupid jokes will end soon, when this rooms becomes moderated ;)
[22:52:06] <BartVB> Kev: meuh?
[22:52:10] <infiniti> i use += unless i'm trying to do it inline
[22:52:11] <deucalion> what happened that SO many ppl are in this channel?
[22:52:27] <Kev> BartVB: left the room
[22:52:32] <BartVB> ah :)
[22:52:34] <Kev> deucalion: dev meeting in 8mins :)
[22:52:38] <deucalion> oh
[22:52:39] <deucalion> ah
[22:52:39] <BartVB> I guess remko hates ut too :)
[22:52:41] <deucalion> :)
[22:52:47] <iono> ^_^
[22:52:50] <マチェック> aaa.... I don't have enough colors defined
[22:52:54] <マチェック> so really many people here today ;)
[22:52:58] <deucalion> hehe
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[22:53:51] <Norman@Home> and some people are in twice,
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[22:54:24] <マチェック> Kev: I think Peter is back :)
[22:54:30] <Norman@Home> remko: I need to code up that remote control command to 'leave all group chats' eh?
[22:54:39] <VxJasonxV> マチェック: my thoughts exactly
[22:54:45] remko leaves the room
[22:54:47] remko joins the room
[22:54:48] <VxJasonxV> needs more colors
[22:55:35] <zenek> Oooh, so many famous people here, it's like oscar ceremony :-)
[22:55:39] <psa> *tries out the OTR support in Adium*
[22:55:47] <VxJasonxV> psa!
[22:55:56] <VxJasonxV> Hi Peter
[22:56:40] <psa> OTR seems to work well, maybe we should scrap JEP-0116 and just use OTR instead...
[22:56:40] <マチェック> Norman@Home: or just code VNC command ;)
[22:56:44] <psa> *investigates further*
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[22:56:48] <BartVB> Hal won't be able to make it?
[22:57:01] <Norman@Home> マチェック: heh, i guess I could remote that way, but I meant adhoc
[22:57:05] <psa> OTR: http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/
[22:57:29] <Kev> ok
[22:57:35] <Kev> I'm going to moderate the room now

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[22:58:04] <infiniti> Kev: using tkabber?
[22:58:09] <VxJasonxV> psa: that's a bit of a lie
[22:58:18] <VxJasonxV> because uhhh, if their machine is compromised, private no more!
[22:58:22] <Kev> infiniti: using Psi
[22:58:35] Fritzy gives infiniti an odd look.
[22:58:44] <mblsha> infiniti: good joke ;)
[22:58:54] <remko> infiniti: what in god's name is tkabber ?
[22:58:54] maxi-ng joins the room
[22:59:01] <infiniti> heee
[22:59:24] psa leaves the room: Logged out
[22:59:38] <remko> Kev: i know what you're about to say, we should be able to voice a whole group
[22:59:50] deucalion nods
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[23:00:48] <Kev> Hi everyone
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[23:00:58] <remko> woops
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[23:01:29] <Kev> right
[23:01:31] <Kev> hi everyone
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[23:02:00] <Kev> This is a chance to ask the Psi devs questions about Psi, the roadmap, our future plans, ourselves if you want I guess etc etc
[23:02:02] Fritzy joins the room
[23:02:13] <Kev> if you have cunning questions, please send a message to Questions
[23:02:18] Questions waves
[23:02:32] <Kev> and we'll paste them here and answer them
[23:02:43] <Kev> so...
[23:02:47] <Kev> please get asking :)
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[23:02:51] <Kev> ahhar
[23:03:00] <Kev> lets not get questions segfaultin g:)
[23:03:44] <Kev> this, btw, is why when I say "do not enable jingle an plugins", I really mean it :)
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[23:04:38] <Options> I'm back now
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[23:05:02] <Kev> @#@#@70
[23:05:03] <Kev> dammit
[23:05:04] <remko> kev, what are you doing ?
[23:05:09] <Kev> just send me questions instead :)
[23:05:52] <Kev> starting out with Brad F from Livejournal:
[23:06:07] <Kev> "When can Psi interopate with Jingle on all 3 platforms?"
[23:06:41] <Kev> anyone want to answer that?
[23:06:44] <remko> oh
[23:06:44] <remko> :)
[23:06:51] <remko> pick me pick me
[23:07:08] <Kev> go on :)
[23:08:00] <remko> well, libjingle (which is what we're using) currently has suport for linux 'built-in'
[23:08:20] <remko> we have a mac os x patch for libjingle which enables it on mac os x
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[23:08:36] <remko> which uses portaudio. I'm planing on making a native Mac OS X audio interface though
[23:08:49] <infiniti> and why not use portaudio?
[23:08:51] <remko> as for windows, we could use portaudio as well in theory, but no one of us ever tried
[23:08:57] <remko> infiniti: it's an extra build dependency
[23:09:12] <remko> infiniti: true, it is not a run-time dependency, which makes it less bad
[23:09:31] <remko> infiniti: the thing with portaudio is that the last version dates several years. I'm not sure if that's good or bad
[23:10:11] <infiniti> i only did a brief investigation of portaudio, but i think the old version might make it good. :) they actually have a proposal system for api changes
[23:10:19] <infiniti> so i suspect they are at some really high maturity stage
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[23:10:58] <Kev> it could be
[23:11:25] <infiniti> are there any other hurdles to porting libjingle or is it just the audio hardware stuff?
[23:11:25] <Kev> but as we're only using it on OSX at the moment, where it's least important...
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[23:11:55] <Kev> the big problem with windows, our last remaining platform, is that lots of libjingle doesn't compile cleanly with mingw
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[23:12:23] <infiniti> finally, can you answer the 'when' in the original question?
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[23:12:52] <Kev> we can't do anything until libjingle's more mature
[23:13:00] <Kev> at the moment the spec's still in flux
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[23:13:19] <Kev> and the library isn't going to start chasing the spec until that's done I think
[23:13:40] <Kev> we can't "go live" while it implements a considerably older version of the spec thugh
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[23:13:42] <Kev> *though
[23:13:54] <infiniti> makes sense
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[23:14:15] <Kev> so the answer is mostly "not yet", but once libjingle itself is more mature (along with the protocol) it'll become a priority
[23:14:30] <Kev> <Fritzy> Is QT4 the only thing holding back the next stable release of Psi?
[23:14:44] <remko> justin ?
[23:14:58] <infiniti> indirectly, yes
[23:15:12] EiFFeL leaves the room
[23:15:34] <infiniti> Qt 4 required enough changes that I decided this would also be a good moment to make other changes of our own
[23:16:05] <infiniti> such as refactoring the various subcomponents (namely Iris and QCA)
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[23:16:59] <infiniti> they needed to be refactored anyway, but by doing this we can take advantage of the new Qt 4 features
[23:17:08] <remko> so what's the status now ?
[23:17:50] <infiniti> the status is that QCA is still in beta and Iris has a long way to go, at least to achieve the goals I originally set out for
[23:18:17] <remko> infiniti: how about for 0.11 ?
[23:18:27] <infiniti> the plan is that we'll have to cut short some of the planned refactoring, so that we can have a timely 0.11
[23:19:06] <infiniti> aside from the new DNS facilities, Iris will remain mostly the same API-wise
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[23:19:23] <Kev> On a related note is that there were rumours of XMPP compliance for Iris (also requiring QCA changes) ready for July, is that still on the cards?
[23:19:26] <infiniti> QCA 2 is pure Qt 4. New Iris code is pure Qt 4, old Iris code requires Qt 3 Support
[23:19:32] <infiniti> and of course Psi still requires Qt 3 support
[23:20:26] <Kev> for people who don't know (everyone I guess) Qt3 support means a compatability part of Qt4
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[23:20:32] <Kev> not requiring both library versions
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[23:20:41] <infiniti> right, Qt3 support is part of Qt4 :)
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[23:21:00] <remko> infiniti: so how about kev's question ?
[23:21:10] <infiniti> regarding compliance, yes. Iris was mostly compliant already, there are just some odds and ends to fix. I'll be resolving these things without a refactor
[23:21:20] <infiniti> so we should see XMPP compliance in 0.11
[23:21:40] <remko> infiniti: and because we have integrated new DNS facilities, this includes SRV
[23:22:06] <infiniti> right, that was the big one. SRV was dropped from Qt 4
[23:22:33] <infiniti> so a big part of the new Iris code is an SRV solution, which we now have
[23:23:36] Olaf leaves the room
[23:23:40] <remko> on to the next Q
[23:23:47] <Kev> from Machekki:
[23:24:11] <Kev> Remko and Kev use Dvorak keyboard layouts. What about Justin/mblsha?
[23:24:16] <mblsha> s/Machekki/Machekku/
[23:24:39] <remko> :)
[23:24:39] <Kev> heh, yes
[23:24:42] <mblsha> i use standard US-QWERTY/RU-ЙЦУКЕН layouts
[23:24:49] <infiniti> yes, Qwerty
[23:25:46] <Kev> Zenek:
[23:25:52] <Kev> "What's needed to be done before psi 0.11 can be released?"
[23:25:58] <Kev> very related to the last
[23:26:01] <remko> well, we mostly covered that
[23:26:11] <infiniti> btw, regarding the compliance question, I just got a private message asking about SASL
[23:26:12] <Kev> we have to clean up the code we had to change for the Qt4 port
[23:26:16] <remko> #1: Fix all issues in http://psi-im.org/wiki/Qt4_Issues
[23:26:23] <infiniti> I just want to say that yes, we'll have SASL
[23:26:24] <mblsha> i must learn Dvorak keyboard layout, and fix the remaining Qt4_Issues…
[23:26:24] <Kev> then we wait for Qt4, Iris and QCA
[23:26:39] <remko> exactly, mblsha is handling the Qt4 issues mostly
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[23:27:04] <remko> i'm going to try and fix some non-Qt4 related issues, and work on integrating justin's XMPP and QCA work into Psi further
[23:27:22] <remko> so that's about it for our plans for 0.11
[23:27:39] <Kev> Fritzy:
[23:27:46] <Kev> How are the different SoC projects coming along?
[23:27:58] <Kev> remko: your students first?
[23:28:00] <remko> ok
[23:28:33] <remko> Nick Vidal, who is working on instant syndicating, has been doing some experiments with PEP first, and w orking himself into the Psi code. He should be getting to the interesting stuff about now.
[23:29:05] <Kev> What's instant syndicating?
[23:29:23] <remko> instant syndicating is kind of like blogging for IM
[23:29:36] <remko> or some call it del.icio.us for IM
[23:29:59] <remko> you publish items into certain categories, and interested parties subscribe to different categories
[23:30:19] <Kev> so you get one of these "Tag clouds"
[23:31:06] <Kev> what about your other project?
[23:31:14] <Kev> s/project/student/
[23:31:25] <remko> Joonas Govenius is working on svg whiteboarding (you know, collaboratively drawing pictures) in Psi. He has been experimenting with a new svg whiteboarding protocol in Psi, and has got some code to test his protocol (a Qt4 program which reads the protocol, and creates the drawing).
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[23:31:40] <remko> so he's progressing as well
[23:32:01] <infiniti> what about the protocols for these, are they going to be JEPs?
[23:32:03] <halr9000> sorry, can't stay, just had an eye dr appointment and my eyes are all fubar till the drops wear off...
[23:32:37] <mblsha> halr9000: take care!
[23:33:07] <halr9000> just for the benefit of any new comers, I'm the webmaster. "hi" if you have any questions on the website, give me a shout. my contact info is on my website which is http://halr9000.com
[23:33:10] halr9000 waves
[23:33:22] <infiniti> :)
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[23:33:58] <Kev> Zenek:
[23:34:06] <Kev> Is there going to be some repository for the SoC projects for adventurous people to test?
[23:34:10] <Kev> oh wait
[23:34:15] <Kev> that's only 2/5 projects
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[23:34:28] <Kev> I'll answer that one, then go back to the other projects
[23:34:31] <infiniti> haha, and i had a pending question there for remko
[23:34:48] <Kev> my plugins code is in mainline, marked as experimental
[23:35:05] <Kev> I thoroughly recommend you /do not/ compile it though, unless you like pain in large amounts
[23:35:21] <Kev> as for the others: I don't intend managing them, but the students may maintain their own repos
[23:35:34] <Kev> additionally, Google will possibly host the finished codes
[23:35:42] <Kev> sorry, back to Justin and Remko :)
[23:35:58] <infiniti> ok, i'll speak for mine now
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[23:36:37] <infiniti> both are in the planning/early stages currently
[23:37:13] <infiniti> Murilo Belluzzo is doing Jingle File Transfer
[23:37:45] <infiniti> this will be based on libjingle, and essentially the point is to use the better NAT-dodging capabilities of jingle to have a higher chance of file transfer success
[23:38:04] <spike> so, no native Jingle implementation in Iris ?
[23:38:20] <infiniti> this way, file transfer and voice should have the same success rate
[23:39:03] <infiniti> spike: we probably would need more than just a summer for that, although we've discussed that possibility. i would like to see our own jingle implementation
[23:39:16] <infiniti> I
[23:39:26] <infiniti> 'm going to try writing an ICE implementation
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[23:40:06] <infiniti> and the plan is that Murilo should keep this in mind, so that near the end of the project (or afterwards) we can try to swap out at least the ICE portion of libjingle and his code should still work
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[23:40:31] <Kev> sounds good
[23:40:35] <Kev> your other student?
[23:40:39] <infiniti> for the crowd: ICE is the underlying protocol of jingle that handles the connection between peers
[23:40:56] <infiniti> trading IP addresses, routing over a proxy, etc
[23:41:01] <infiniti> jingle is essentially "ICE over XMPP"
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[23:41:50] <infiniti> Jason McCandless is working on Link-Local Messaging. this is the LAN messaging protocol that iChat uses
[23:42:31] <infiniti> I believe he is implementing it as a proxy application, so that any Jabber client can connect to it, and then the messages will get relayed to the LAN and back
[23:42:51] <Kev> so a virtual server then?
[23:43:09] <infiniti> so this means it is not only beneficial for Psi. However, he will be using the Iris library to write the proxy
[23:43:31] <infiniti> yes, it will simulate what a normal jabber server does
[23:43:50] <spike> I got disconnected before i was able to talk about my second student. Joonas Govenius is working on whiteboarding (collaborative drawing) in Psi. He has made up a new protocol, and has built a tool which takes the protocol as an input, and draws the drawing.
[23:44:01] <spike> kev, how are plugins going ?
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[23:44:13] <infiniti> spike: you'll see it in the logs later :)
[23:44:24] <Kev> plugins are going reasonably well
[23:44:28] <spike> oh ok, sorry if i missed it
[23:44:31] <spike> on to the next one then
[23:44:37] <Kev> we've got a framework for locating plugins and loading them
[23:44:48] <Kev> for loading and unloading them etc
[23:45:18] <spike> we'll have to higher our pace, apparently the questions are running in fast
[23:45:23] <spike> :)
[23:45:25] <Kev> unlike most apps with mods/plugins, with Psi (on lin and osx at least) you won't need to reset to change them
[23:45:33] <Kev> erm, lin and win I mean
[23:45:38] <Kev> osx prevents that, alas
[23:45:47] <Kev> the starts on python scripting are also done
[23:45:57] <Kev> and there are several demoplugins in the works :)
[23:46:07] <Kev> a question from Alok
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[23:46:16] <Kev> will we establish target dates in the roadmap?
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[23:46:24] <Kev> No, not really
[23:46:38] <Kev> we always hope to have it done soon
[23:46:48] <Kev> and it always is done as soon as possible, and that's about it
[23:47:22] <Kev> another question from the livejournal guys
[23:47:31] <Kev> "LiveJournal wants an easily brandable xmpp client, to not confuse/overwhelm users. Can Psi provide this?"
[23:47:59] <Kev> our options system is currently being overhauled
[23:48:12] <Kev> one of the consequences of this is that it's now much easier to change defaults
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[23:48:34] <Kev> defaults can be trivially changed at compile-time by changing an xml file
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[23:48:47] <infiniti> I guess it depends on the extent of the branding
[23:48:57] <Kev> we're intending to allow more customisation in the core soon
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[23:49:07] <Kev> such that a complete rebranding will be possible
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[23:49:40] <Kev> of course, some donation from a company which wishes it rebranded would help that, :)
[23:50:08] <Kev> but we would like people to be able to have a 'simple' custom psi
[23:50:15] <Kev> fixed to one server etc
[23:50:23] <Kev> from Fritzy:
[23:50:29] <Kev> When will we see another Psi stable release, and which features do you imagine will make it into such a release?
[23:50:38] <Kev> Remko can answer this, as he's been on a spree recently
[23:50:50] <spike> a spree which is ending now :-)
[23:51:04] <spike> a part has been answered earlier
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[23:52:09] <spike> 0.11 is our next release. The features you can expect are mostly MUC and Remote Controlling. We have our PEP implementation lined up, which brings us goodies like publishing what song you are listening to, avatars, ...
[23:52:47] <spike> however, we are waiting for a server implementation to finalize this. Ejabberd has promised to do this 'soon', and the Wildfire guys are working on it as well with a high priority
[23:53:21] <spike> we tested it with ejabberd, and it looked as if it was working, so let's keep our fingers crossed that it makes it into 0.11 (which depends on Wildfire and/or ejabberd)
[23:54:03] <spike> of course, there are many other features and small new things, but i'm not going to bore you with those, you guys can read the changelog after the release ;-)
[23:54:20] <spike> oh, one more thing
[23:55:08] <spike> we've also implemented roster exchange, which should make it a lot cleaner to register with transports. We all know the trouble it is to do that. We are now waiting for the PyMSN-t implementation to emerge
[23:55:18] <spike> again a feature lined up to be tested
[23:55:22] <Kev> and privacy of course
[23:55:29] <Kev> :)
[23:55:30] <infiniti> although we already talked about compliance, i should say that 0.11 will bring StartTLS, SRV, and SASL
[23:55:34] <infiniti> and that :)
[23:55:38] <spike> yes, we also allow the editing of privacy lists
[23:55:41] <infiniti> and also no more blank error messages
[23:55:44] <infiniti> ("Reason: ")
[23:55:52] <spike> ah yes, another important one, thanks to machekku
[23:56:02] <Kev> another from Alok
[23:56:03] <Kev> I have this slight fear you will implement "theming" which would break the like natural OS UI look, just wondering if you have a thought on if you ever seeing themeing in the future? and if it does happen, still leaving the current ui style.
[23:56:08] <Kev> This won't happen
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[23:56:29] <Kev> we've always said that Psi will not be 'skinned', which is what I think you mean
[23:56:30] <mblsha> i've thought of it in the past, and it's really horrible
[23:57:02] <Kev> themeing however, which is just allowing users to share those options related to appearance is planned
[23:57:14] <mblsha> but Psi supports loading Qt themes, and there are several cross-platform ones, so non-native look is possible
[23:57:50] <Kev> and there's chance that one day we'll allow aduim-style chat themes, along with Google Talk and Kopete
[23:58:12] <Kev> from IceRAM
[23:58:24] <Kev> "Best ways to follow development of 0.11"
[23:58:30] sneakin joins the room
[23:58:44] <mblsha> read planet.psi-im.org :)
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[23:58:46] <Kev> we've got many ways to follow development at the moment
[23:58:48] <spike> that's the first one
[23:58:48] <Kev> but the best
[23:58:56] <spike> and has the least traffic
[23:58:57] <Kev> is to read http://planet.psi-im.org
[23:59:10] <spike> the second one is to subscribe to the RSS feed of our darcs repository
[23:59:19] <spike> which is higher traffic if i'm awake :p
[23:59:36] <Kev> that's where we blog about the most important things in development
[23:59:55] <mblsha> and here's the jabber-syndicated rss-feed: psi-darcs-mainline@rss.jabber.ru
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