Psi. Official chat for the Psi Jabber client (http://psi-im.org)

Tuesday, 20 June 2006< ^ >

∞+1 has set the subject to: Psi: Kicks for Communication (http://psi-im.org) | Room language: English | We often sleep, so if you don't get an answer immediately, hang around :)

Room Configuration

GMT+4
[00:01:48] <deucalion> :>
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[00:03:44] zenek42 leaves the room: Logged out
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[00:13:10] <ALok-work> you know the website has old screenshots...
[00:13:17] <ALok-work> should have it just redirect to the wiki
[00:13:20] <ALok-work> or something
[00:17:16] BartVB leaves the room: Computer went to sleep
[00:17:23] <IceRAM> finally...
[00:17:29] <Kev> the whole site's due to be redone
[00:17:30] <IceRAM> I managed to read all the 243 unread events
[00:17:43] <IceRAM> well... I skipped some...
[00:18:44] <ALok-work> make the whole thing wiki?
[00:18:46] <ALok-work> :)
[00:19:41] <Kev> no
[00:19:56] <Kev> that's not conducive to what I want to achieve with it :)
[00:20:13] VxJasonxV rips hair out
[00:20:21] <VxJasonxV> well
[00:20:31] <VxJasonxV> you could always make the screenshots point to whatever are the newest screenshots on the wiki
[00:20:35] マチェック leaves the room
[00:20:40] <VxJasonxV> just keep the filenames the same anytime you upload them to the wiki and such
[00:20:44] <ALok-work> well that was what i was saying...
[00:20:51] <ALok-work> o no...
[00:20:52] <VxJasonxV> you said make the whole thing a wiki
[00:20:53] <VxJasonxV> :P
[00:20:58] <VxJasonxV> I said just the screenshots
[00:20:58] マチェック joins the room
[00:21:07] <ALok-work> well screen shots has a wiki page
[00:21:14] <ALok-work> and a website page
[00:21:22] <ALok-work> so i was saying... to merge it
[00:21:37] <ALok-work> then i realized that most of the site is repeated elsewere.. so should just merge the whole thing...
[00:21:46] <ALok-work> then Kev said he wanted something
[00:21:55] <ALok-work> but he has not told us what he wanted...
[00:22:37] <Kev> you'll see
[00:22:39] <ALok-work> anyone here ever use the "Jess Rules" language?
[00:22:46] <iono> no
[00:22:55] <ALok-work> iono: うるさい
[00:23:28] Spike411 thinks there are too many people trying to speak Japanese in the wordl... ;o
[00:23:34] <Spike411> *world
[00:24:07] <ALok-work> :)
[00:24:19] ALok-work is crazy anime otaku
[00:24:30] <Spike411> Otakus should DIEEEEEEEE! ;p
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[00:24:36] <ALok-work> i see japan as this amazing place... but i would never go there
[00:24:38] <Spike411> *ahem*
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[00:25:15] <ALok-work> otaku is really a nerd/geek fanboy who does not leave the house...
[00:25:26] <ALok-work> like one who lives in his parent's basement
[00:25:30] <Spike411> Oh, just like me! :d
[00:25:38] <Spike411> Well, I don't live in basement.
[00:25:44] <ALok-work> figurtivly
[00:26:06] <ALok-work> but when used in an american contextr....
[00:26:16] <ALok-work> it usually means a fan of something japanese
[00:27:15] <Spike411> I **know** the word quite well... ;)
[00:28:29] <LRN> If you're otaku, why should you die?
[00:29:44] <Spike411> I'm not otaku... nowadays... well, I mostly stay at home and I think not many people would care if I just died, but I'm just not regular, hard-core otaku. :)
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[00:30:44] <ALok-work> What do you think of when i say "bleach"?
[00:31:24] <LRN> nothing :)
[00:31:44] <LRN> I don't know what is "bleach"
[00:31:46] <albert> I only watch anime 8 hours every saturday. Does that make me an anime otaku?
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[00:31:55] <ALok-work> yes
[00:31:58] <ALok-work> lol
[00:32:09] <albert> I don't watch anime any other day in the week though.
[00:32:18] <LRN> let me see...Saturday is 6'th day of week, just before Sunday...right&
[00:32:28] <albert> And I have no posters, dolls or soundtracks.
[00:32:30] <ALok-work> yeah, but if i watch anime for 1 hour each day... i would still watch less than you
[00:32:47] <ALok-work> i would consider my self otaku
[00:32:51] <VxJasonxV> man, this is annoying
[00:32:56] <VxJasonxV> I cannot find wtf is the problem with this script :/
[00:33:01] <albert> Okay. Restarting to get this segfault patch in.
[00:33:03] <VxJasonxV> it's not generating an image :(
[00:33:04] albert leaves the room
[00:33:12] <ALok-work> what kind of script?
[00:33:14] <VxJasonxV> php
[00:33:20] <VxJasonxV> I mean, all I did was change jpg to png
[00:33:22] <VxJasonxV> in 4 locations
[00:33:25] <LRN> php suxxxx
[00:33:27] <ALok-work> web?
[00:33:28] <VxJasonxV> and suddenly it's breaking
[00:33:31] <ALok-work> or console?
[00:33:31] <VxJasonxV> console
[00:33:39] <VxJasonxV> cronjob specifically, but yeah, concole
[00:33:41] <VxJasonxV> console*
[00:33:43] <ALok-work> o
[00:33:47] <ALok-work> gd?
[00:34:06] <VxJasonxV> yeah
[00:34:12] <ALok-work> imagepng?
[00:34:13] <VxJasonxV> I know I'm not running out of memory
[00:34:14] <VxJasonxV> yeah
[00:34:20] <VxJasonxV> imagecreatefrompng, and imagepng to create
[00:34:28] <ALok-work> http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.imagejpeg.php
[00:34:34] <ALok-work> bool imagejpeg ( resource image [, string filename [, int quality]] )
[00:34:44] <VxJasonxV> bool imagepng ( resource image [, string filename] )
[00:34:50] <VxJasonxV> from jpeg, to png
[00:35:02] <ALok-work> and what happens?
[00:35:06] <VxJasonxV> no errors
[00:35:09] <VxJasonxV> and the file doesn't get created
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[00:35:21] <ALok-work> no quality arg?
[00:35:36] <VxJasonxV> [01:34:19 PM] <VxJasonxV> bool imagepng ( resource image [, string filename] )
[00:35:37] <VxJasonxV> :P
[00:36:02] <ALok-work> but jpeg still works?
[00:36:07] <VxJasonxV> it was working, yes
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[00:36:24] <ALok-work> try anything else?
[00:36:24] BartVB leaves the room
[00:36:33] <ALok-work> imagegif?
[00:37:17] <VxJasonxV> don't have a gif to base it off of
[00:38:03] <ALok-work> hrm..
[00:38:31] <VxJasonxV> can php trans...... stuff...ify ?
[00:38:38] <VxJasonxV> i.e. can I use imagecreatefrompng and imagegif ?
[00:38:44] <ALok-work> should...
[00:38:48] <ALok-work> there are alpha commands
[00:38:57] <ALok-work> http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.imagecolorallocatealpha.php
[00:39:32] <VxJasonxV> it would *seem* to be a problem with my if statement
[00:39:37] <VxJasonxV> but I know there's nothing wrong with it
[00:39:46] <ALok-work> set debug flags?
[00:39:48] <VxJasonxV> if((int)$cache_time < (time() - 90))
[00:39:53] <ALok-work> or cheap echo commands
[00:39:55] <VxJasonxV> I tried turning error_reporting(E_ALL); on
[00:39:58] <ALok-work> to see where it get to
[00:40:07] <ALok-work> so you know where in the code it fails
[00:40:53] <ALok-work> what is $cache_time ?
[00:41:00] <iono> This afternoon.
[00:41:08] <VxJasonxV> $cache_time = file_get_contents('./public_html/cache/recenttracks.xml.time');
if((int)$cache_time < (time() - 90)
[00:41:11] <ALok-work> iono: urusai
[00:41:20] <VxJasonxV> it's the last time the file was retrieved
[00:41:23] <VxJasonxV> which I KNOW is working
[00:41:24] <VxJasonxV> I've seen it work
[00:41:59] <ALok-work> so.. so only every 90 seconds
[00:42:10] <VxJasonxV> the cron is set to run every 2 minutes
[00:42:11] <ALok-work> um...
[00:42:13] halr9000 leaves the room
[00:42:14] <VxJasonxV> that's just a safeguard
[00:42:15] <ALok-work> ok...
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[00:42:33] <ALok-work> can i see your imagepng line?
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[00:42:41] <VxJasonxV> I already showed it to you
[00:42:48] <ALok-work> where?
[00:42:55] <VxJasonxV> mmm
[00:42:57] <VxJasonxV> I lied, sorry
[00:43:01] <iono> mmmmm, trigger
[00:43:08] ALok-work kills iono
[00:43:12] <VxJasonxV> imagepng($im, './public_html/images/lastfm.png');
[00:43:12] <iono> arrgh my nostril! now i only have 4 left
[00:43:26] <ALok-work> where are you looking for the file/
[00:43:44] <VxJasonxV> I'm not
[00:43:44] <VxJasonxV> errr
[00:43:45] <VxJasonxV> dur
[00:43:48] <iono> YOU'RE not? feel these nipples!
[00:43:56] <VxJasonxV> $im = imagecreatefrompng('./public_html/images/lastbg.png');
[00:44:05] <ALok-work> cron runs from root dir
[00:44:06] <ALok-work> right?
[00:44:10] <ALok-work> /
[00:44:32] <VxJasonxV> */2 * * * * php -q $HOME/lastfmsig.php
[00:44:44] <ALok-work> it does not matter how you call it...
[00:44:47] <ALok-work> i don't think
[00:44:57] <ALok-work> i had problems with files ending up in the root dir...
[00:45:10] <VxJasonxV> they're not in the root dir, believe me
[00:45:14] <VxJasonxV> I'm staring at it right now :P
[00:45:15] <ALok-work> so it might be trying to write /public_html/images/lastfm.png
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[00:45:26] <VxJasonxV> there's a . before the /
[00:45:33] <ALok-work> but if it runs from root
[00:45:40] <ALok-work> /./public_html/images/lastfm.png = /public_html/images/lastfm.png
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[00:45:59] <VxJasonxV> where are you inferring that leading / from?
[00:46:09] <ALok-work> because php in cron does that for me
[00:46:14] <ALok-work> it runs from root dir
[00:46:31] <ALok-work> i dunno what its supposed to do... but it did that for me
[00:46:43] <VxJasonxV> ...
[00:46:50] <VxJasonxV> ...
[00:46:51] <VxJasonxV> oh man
[00:47:14] <Kev> always specify full paths in cron scripts
[00:47:16] <Kev> saves any confusion
[00:47:21] <zenek42> uhm... How can I delete a bookmark?
[00:47:24] <VxJasonxV> the cron script does specify a full path
[00:47:27] <VxJasonxV> the php script does not
[00:47:30] <ALok-work> yea
[00:47:58] <VxJasonxV> so apparently, the problem is all last.fm
[00:47:59] <VxJasonxV> sigh
[00:48:12] <ALok-work> ?
[00:48:20] <ALok-work> using a bad site?
[00:48:25] <ALok-work> :)
[00:48:37] <ALok-work> should just keep your own logs
[00:49:00] <ALok-work> just go with danasoft ;)
[00:49:08] <VxJasonxV> ...
[00:49:20] <VxJasonxV> I just looked at the log file for my audioscrobbler plugin/client/script/whatever
[00:49:22] <VxJasonxV> and uhhh
[00:49:27] <VxJasonxV> oia4tlksadgjfgljk
[00:49:28] <VxJasonxV> :(
[00:49:29] <ALok-work> o?
[00:49:33] iono spanks vxjasonxv
[00:49:35] <iono> Only with you Alok-work.
[00:49:36] <ALok-work> what does it have to do with last.fm then?
[00:49:45] <ALok-work> iono i don't know you!
[00:49:50] <VxJasonxV> ALok-work: that's where I'm getting the data from...
[00:50:02] <ALok-work> last.fm is a site...
[00:50:27] <ALok-work> i am confused
[00:50:32] <ALok-work> idunno what you are doing
[00:50:51] <VxJasonxV> http://vxjasonxv.com/images/lastfm.png
[00:50:52] <VxJasonxV> that
[00:50:52] <ALok-work> i personally don't listen to music enough for that kind of stuff to matter
[00:51:22] <ALok-work> nice...
[00:51:33] <ALok-work> IE opened it out side...
[00:51:39] <ALok-work> how are you sending headerS?
[00:51:47] <ALok-work> don't tell me its an attachemtn
[00:51:56] <ALok-work> or wit...
[00:51:59] <ALok-work> what?
[00:52:05] <ALok-work> why did IE download it?
[00:52:34] <ALok-work> i don't like the top part of that image...
[00:52:45] <ALok-work> its like you are branded by last.fm :)
[00:54:00] <ALok-work> well whatever...
[00:56:10] <VxJasonxV> augh, augh, augh augh augh
[00:56:12] <ALok-work> DDR huh?
[00:56:21] <ALok-work> you any good?
[00:56:24] <VxJasonxV> quite
[00:56:35] <VxJasonxV> not as good as I used to be, but I can still hold my own
[00:56:37] <ALok-work> ever see ryota?
[00:56:42] <VxJasonxV> never heard of them
[00:56:49] <ALok-work> 5 year old?
[00:56:55] <VxJasonxV> never heard of him
[00:56:55] <VxJasonxV> :P
[00:57:29] <ALok-work> http://tzwada.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/60ryotas_move/index.html
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[00:58:13] <ALok-work> i like the dad's video editing
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[00:58:37] <ALok-work> the videos are very high quality i would say
[00:58:47] <ALok-work> plus the kid is amazing
[01:05:35] <ALok-work> bbl
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[01:40:02] <c00i90wn> remko: It's possible to have background joins when it's a bookmark?
[01:41:02] <マチェック> Ug: why do you wake up so early? :)
[01:41:36] <Ug> Yes, I wake up at 5 every morning.
[01:41:47] <マチェック> hmm
[01:41:54] <マチェック> you want, or you have to?
[01:42:00] <Ug> :-)
[01:42:11] <Ug> I want
[01:42:24] <マチェック> :)
[01:42:38] <マチェック> lately I go to sleep at 5 in the morning ;)
[01:42:41] <Ug> I love early morning because none in the office.
[01:43:31] <Ug> me too, in past.
[01:43:38] <c00i90wn> remko: Also I have another feature request aside that one, tabbed muc windows and fancypopup when the user is beign highlighted in a muc
[01:43:57] <Ug> Please shift the time hour to hour every day.
[01:44:10] <Ug> Then you can wake up at 5.
[01:44:13] TobiasFar leaves the room
[01:44:18] <Ug> ;-)
[01:44:21] <マチェック> :)
[01:44:33] <マチェック> but I can focus on my things better at night
[01:44:43] <マチェック> so maybe I should get up at midnight :)
[01:45:02] <マチェック> then I'd live in Japanese timezone :D
[01:45:47] <Ug> When I was in Calfornia, I also called person who lived in Asian time.
[01:46:40] <Ug> However, it was necesarry to communicate co-league in JP.
[01:46:44] zenek42 leaves the room
[01:47:25] <Ug> Timezone difference is seed of headach always.
[01:47:35] <Ug> Oops.
[01:47:47] <iono> "great"
[01:48:03] <Ug> So so big earthquake happen in Tokyo.
[01:48:09] <マチェック> now?
[01:48:13] <Ug> Yes.
[01:48:19] <マチェック> how big is big?
[01:48:30] <Ug> I'll check the web.
[01:48:57] <マチェック> thanks
[01:50:38] <Ug> not so large
[01:50:46] <Ug> magnitude 4.5
[01:51:09] <マチェック> honestly I don't know the scale...
[01:51:14] <Ug> but location is close, in a 30km
[01:51:23] <マチェック> should I make a phone call? or everyone should be fine?
[01:51:41] <Ug> I think it's no problem.
[01:51:45] <マチェック> ok
[01:52:02] <Ug> JP is the country of earthquake.
[01:52:03] <マチェック> she should get up in 15 min, so I'll wait
[01:52:24] <マチェック> I know, but really don't know what 4.5 means...
[01:52:26] <マチェック> got to read
[01:52:54] <Ug> It's dgree of whole energy of the one earthquake.
[01:53:11] <マチェック> Ug, so you're in Tokyo, right?
[01:53:26] <Ug> next of Tokyo.
[01:53:38] <Ug> You know Kawasaki?
[01:53:48] <マチェック> I think I know :)
[01:54:41] <Ug> I live near the river flow between Tokyo and Kawasaki.
[01:55:33] <マチェック> is there a way to force google maps to display Japanese names not in kanji?
[01:55:40] <マチェック> (or could you write Kwasaki for me?)
[01:55:42] <Ug> BTW, I have things to know about Europe Internet?
[01:56:05] <Ug> 川崎
[01:56:58] <マチェック> Europe internet? hmm... too much NAT everywhere ;)
[01:57:34] <Kev> I use NAT, even though I have a subnet allocation :o
[01:57:39] <マチェック> at least in Poland
[01:57:43] <Ug> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=kawasaki+Japan&ie=UTF8&ll=35.531667,139.700089&spn=0.132433,0.346069&om=1
[01:58:06] <Kev> two of my PCs are 'net routable, the rest natted
[01:58:35] <Ug> That means it is too expensive to have link with global address?
[01:59:06] <Kev> I have an 8 ip block
[01:59:17] <Kev> which doesn't cost me any extra over a single ip
[01:59:31] <Ug> How broad your subscribing line is?
[02:00:02] <Kev> 1meg adsl
[02:00:39] <Kev> I don't often need more
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[02:00:59] <Ug> is that ordinal link in UK?
[02:01:03] <Kev> ordinal?
[02:01:15] <Kev> do you mean usual?
[02:01:27] <Ug> I have 2, one is 1.5Mbps another is 100Mbps.
[02:01:50] <Ug> I mean popular.
[02:02:06] <hawke> "standard" i think...
[02:02:16] <albert> I am supposed to have 5 dynamically assigned ip adresses, but they are not in a subnet.
[02:02:28] <Ug> In JP, the ratio of fiber link become about to 50%.
[02:02:29] <remko> c00i90wn: tabbed MUC windows is something you should ask Kev to do
[02:02:37] <ALok> i hate people with good isps
[02:02:38] <remko> c00i90wn: background joins will come with the 'minimize to roster' feature
[02:02:40] <albert> I upgraded ADSL to 24/1 because it actually turned out to be cheaper than the 10/1 I had before.
[02:02:47] <ALok> i onlyg have 2Mbps up
[02:03:02] <ALok> and then i talk to people in sweeden
[02:03:03] <remko> c00i90wn: and popups when names are highlighted, we'll have to wait to see what happens with plugins before we decide on what to do with extra popup stuff ;)
[02:03:12] <ALok> and they have like 18/18 for the same price
[02:03:12] <hawke> ALok: "only"
[02:03:15] <Kev> I have 256 up
[02:03:21] <Kev> and I don't have a need for anything more
[02:03:22] <ALok> yera but for the price i am paying...
[02:03:29] <ALok> i seed bt stuff sometimes
[02:03:36] <ALok> and do video stuff
[02:03:50] <ALok> puting out hundresds of megs in short ammounts of time
[02:03:56] <albert> I can get a static ip but it would cost me extra and it would only be 1 instead of 5 dynamically assigned (which turns out to be static as long as I don't keep all computers offline too long.
[02:03:58] <Kev> if I really want to shift stuff, I take it to work
[02:04:05] <マチェック> Ug: so you're not that far away from Ota-ku :) (BTW: I got email, so nothing bad happened in the earthquake)
[02:04:10] <hawke> ALok: For my link it's $90/month for 512k up... :-/
[02:04:25] <c00i90wn> remko: Oh ok :)
[02:04:28] <Kev> alas, the pipe at work is faster than the network infrastructure
[02:04:29] <ALok> i only get like 500 kbps up at work
[02:04:30] <c00i90wn> remko: Thanks though :)
[02:04:39] <Kev> so I can only get 100mbps
[02:04:49] <Kev> but that's usually enough ;)
[02:04:49] <c00i90wn> Kev: Have you digged into the crash issue when closing tabbed chats?
[02:04:56] <ALok> at school... i can only get 10Mbit ... cause of the netowrk
[02:05:02] <Kev> I can download isos faster than I can burn them at 16x
[02:05:09] <ALok> if i first load it to some lab machines... i can get 100Mbit
[02:05:38] albert agress with Kev.
[02:05:41] <Kev> c00i90wn: I have not
[02:06:01] <Kev> but I just don't use much bandwidth very often
[02:06:03] <ALok> o Kev... where ever i leave the cursor in a chat...
[02:06:09] <ALok> it snaps to it when i get new messages
[02:06:20] <Kev> the number of legitimate reasons to do so are significantly less than the illegitimate ones I think
[02:06:36] <c00i90wn> Kev: Ah ok, no problem, can I ask you to add tabbed muc support too?
[02:06:58] <Kev> it's planned
[02:07:06] <Kev> it's been planned for an age
[02:07:14] <Kev> I just need to completely rewrite tab support to get it
[02:07:20] <Ug> I want to know bandwidth situation of HOME because
[02:07:22] <Kev> which I haven't had time to do
[02:07:59] <Ug> my research area is to provide multi-party video communication
[02:08:07] <Ug> for SOHO.
[02:08:44] <c00i90wn> Kev: ah ok, thanks :)
[02:08:48] <ALok> dialup!
[02:08:58] <Ug> Really?
[02:09:03] <ALok> use libaa for video!
[02:09:25] <Ug> what's libaa?
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[02:10:37] <ALok> its aalib
[02:10:40] <ALok> oops
[02:10:55] <ALok> http://aa-project.sourceforge.net/aalib/
[02:11:04] <deucalion> hi! a friend of mine wants to compile psi trunk for the first time on linux (gentoo)... can he install qca2 beta2 and the required openssl stuff into his homedir if he adds the paths to /etc/ld.so.conf ?
[02:11:31] <Ug> :-D :-D :-D
[02:12:03] deucalion pokes the devs ;)
[02:12:21] <マチェック> Ug: I have 64k ISDN at home, this is why I spend as much time as I can in dorm (which doesn't have a really fast connection, but at least it's for free and 24h/d, so I just need to be patient :))
[02:12:37] <Ug> I understand it's good for dialup, ALok.
[02:12:51] <マチェック> yes, I can setup two channels and get 128, but never really tried
[02:13:06] <ALok> ug .. i'd say aim for 256kbps up
[02:13:21] <ALok> though that is not everyone... i'd say that is a good comprimise...
[02:13:42] <Ug> Yeah, I know that.
[02:13:45] <Kev> deucalion: if Qt is in his home, yes, easily
[02:13:55] <Kev> otherwise he'll need to do some amount of poking, probably
[02:14:04] <Ug> I meant aalib is good also for aalib ;-)
[02:14:12] <ALok> lol
[02:14:14] <deucalion> ah... yes... I remember.. qt needs to find that after all... yeah
[02:14:23] <ALok> ug.. low frame rates
[02:14:28] <deucalion> Kev: thanks for enlightening me... didn't think of that :)
[02:14:47] <ALok> :} .5 fps
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[02:15:08] <Kev> Ug: for a large proportion of the UK's broadbank, 256k up is the max
[02:15:15] <ALok> variable framerates!
[02:15:15] <Kev> a reasonable amount 128
[02:15:26] <ALok> go at whatever speed it can go
[02:15:35] <Ug> With 128Kbps, it's enough to do skype, I think.
[02:15:39] <ALok> just spend a stream of jpegs
[02:15:42] c00i90wn joins the room
[02:15:50] <Ug> But not enough skype with video.
[02:16:16] <ALok> what are you doing?
[02:16:23] <Kev> well, you can stream audio over a modem if you want to
[02:16:27] <ALok> jabber video muc?
[02:16:28] <マチェック> Ug: I do MSN video conference on my 64K ISDN :) (at least one way, because I don't have webcam at home...)
[02:16:32] <Ug> 256K is good for one-to-one Video .
[02:16:37] <Kev> and webcam chat even
[02:16:49] <Ug> but not good for many to many
[02:16:54] <Kev> with idsn dialups
[02:17:02] <Kev> indeed not
[02:17:11] <Kev> but a lot depends whether it's mediated or not
[02:17:33] <Kev> sending your stream out once isn't so bad
[02:17:35] <c00i90wn> Kev: founnd another crash bug... when an incoming notification is flashing in tray and you double click it crashes psi, same goes if you double clik it in roster, the only way to receive it without crashing psi is CTRL+R (which doesn't work, but I can't remember the menu string)
[02:17:38] <Kev> sending it N times is horrid
[02:17:56] <Kev> c00i90wn: I can't verify that here :o
[02:18:26] <Ug> Many researchers have insisted multicast ease many to many, from 20 years ago.
[02:18:55] <c00i90wn> Kev: It only happens with notifications(the ones that seems to be little monitors, ie: authorization requests)
[02:19:01] <Kev> yeah, if you have multicast support, that saves the problem of mediation
[02:19:11] <Kev> but most ISPs don't support multicast, I thought
[02:19:24] <Ug> But we never see the home network with multicast.:-P
[02:19:42] <deucalion> *mumbling* ipv6...
[02:19:54] <deucalion> but not even there... the ISPs wouldn't like that..
[02:20:07] VxJasonxV wantey IPv6
[02:20:27] <Ug> deucalion, it's one of the myth of IPv6 that v6 enable group address multicast.
[02:20:48] deucalion likes myths
[02:20:54] <c00i90wn> Kev: BTW, it's on Windows
[02:21:01] <deucalion> like... I dream about http://el-tramo.be/files/psi/shots/pepsubs.png becoming reality... *lalalalaaaa* ;)
[02:21:35] <deucalion> (i.e. - we'd need e.g. ejabberd to support various pubsub stuff and psi to implement the SAME version of the implemented JEPs)
[02:21:35] <Kev> deucalion: that is reality
[02:21:39] <deucalion> oh
[02:21:43] <Kev> deucalion: just need the servers
[02:21:46] <deucalion> so its only the patchset thats outdated?
[02:21:51] <Kev> that code's in Psi
[02:21:57] <deucalion> Kev: the patchset I posted ages ago is outdated?
[02:22:04] <Kev> what patchset?
[02:22:15] <Kev> legoscia's ejd pep patch?
[02:22:16] <deucalion> for ejabberd
[02:22:18] <deucalion> yes
[02:22:38] <マチェック> // off-topic: Ug: I hope to be here again this September: http://jobble.org/map?rid=1354&zoom=12 :)
[02:22:40] <Kev> ejd's running pubsub <=1.7
[02:22:54] <Kev> it'll need >=1.8
[02:22:58] <Kev> unless they've updated
[02:22:58] <deucalion> oh :(
[02:23:08] <Kev> wildfire's got 1.8 afaik, but no pep yet
[02:23:16] <Kev> they're aiming for a month or so though afaik
[02:23:21] <deucalion> so the patchset requires a higher version of pubsub that even exists, or psi requires that?
[02:23:55] <マチェック> Kev: I have just one question: so how did you test the code in psi? :)
[02:23:56] <deucalion> mmh... a month sounds like soon... I could live with that :) [... as if I had a choice, or any other realistic choice ;) ]
[02:24:04] <deucalion> hehe
[02:24:14] <Kev> マチェック: with 1.7
[02:24:17] <deucalion> マチェック: "it works for me!" (tm) ;)
[02:24:27] <deucalion> oh, k
[02:24:47] <deucalion> so... the patchset advanced but ejabberd didn't, did I get that right?
[02:24:56] <deucalion> (and psi of course as well :> )
[02:25:07] <Ug> Really? マチェック. Please tell me when you will, if schedule fixed.
[02:25:09] <Kev> and, more thoroughly, tested it with a pseudo-pep layer on top of pubsub
[02:25:43] <Ug> It's time to go office. Bye guys!
[02:25:57] <Kev> bye
[02:26:23] <Kev> deucalion: remko will know better than I, he coded it
[02:26:43] <deucalion> Kev: thanks. I'll ask him when he gets online/here :)
[02:27:11] <deucalion> oh... a pubsub for timezones would be handy btw... like coupled with the geolocation one :)
[02:27:23] <deucalion> (or alone itself, would be useful enough)
[02:27:26] <Kev> you really don't want it in pubsub
[02:27:32] <Kev> pep possibly, but not pubsub
[02:27:35] <deucalion> oh
[02:27:36] <deucalion> k
[02:27:49] <deucalion> I still have to read the JEPs for that... didn't do that yet
[02:27:58] <Kev> in general, any time you think you want pubsub, you don't, you want pep
[02:28:06] deucalion will have time for that in 2 weeks :)... 'til then its learning for uni... :|
[02:28:09] <remko> at least in the context of IM
[02:28:14] <deucalion> ah, k
[02:28:34] <remko> c00i90wn: gdb + bt plz :)
[02:29:08] <Kev> remko: isn't that what we're here for? :)
[02:29:29] <deucalion> remko: sorry for bugging you about the pep/pubsub thing again... but the primary thing that needs work is 1. not psi, 2. not the patchset for ejabberd but ejabberd itself, did I get that right?
[02:30:24] <remko> deucalion: yeah, although the patchset of legoscia also needed some work IIRC, but it worked mostly
[02:30:37] <remko> deucalion: you can always try and find the patch where i upgrade psi to pubsub 1.8 :)
[02:30:39] <ALok> what is "IIRC"?
[02:30:40] <remko> and revert it
[02:30:44] <ALok> isn;t an irc client?
[02:30:47] <Kev> if I remember correctly
[02:30:48] <remko> if i recoll corectly
[02:30:51] <remko> woops
[02:30:56] <iono> let's go to my room, pig
[02:30:56] <hawke> :-)
[02:31:01] <ALok> if i reject completely
[02:31:13] <Kev> and no, irssi is the irc client you're probably thinking of
[02:31:18] <remko> or mIRC
[02:31:20] <Kev> (and also the best irc client)
[02:31:26] <ALok> irssi!
[02:31:39] <ALok> go google iirc
[02:31:48] <ALok> no
[02:31:51] <ALok> i am thinking og ircII
[02:32:00] <deucalion> remko: thanks... I will check out both the darcs commit[s] as well as the patches for ejabberd in depth
[02:32:08] <remko> deucalion: the patch to go 1.8<->1.7 isn't a lot you know :)
[02:32:24] <deucalion> remko: yup... surely won't be such a hard thing to do :)
[02:32:31] <deucalion> wouldn't*
[02:32:36] <deucalion> mh
[02:32:38] <remko> deucalion: i didn't say that, because some stuff was moved around in the meantime i think
[02:32:55] <remko> deucalion: but you can fix it in a hacky way :)
[02:33:07] <remko> i think just change <subscription> to something else
[02:33:09] <remko> and that's it
[02:33:13] <deucalion> remko: oh well... a good thing to get to know the codebase (albeit quite in flux atm) a bit better ;)
[02:33:27] <deucalion> sounds good :)
[02:33:41] <remko> it's not in that much flux anymore i believe
[02:33:43] <remko> not for now :)
[02:33:46] <deucalion> :)
[02:34:14] deucalion is REALLY interested in how the plugin API and the plugin stuff in general will turn out to be :)
[02:34:22] <deucalion> ;)
[02:34:29] <iono> =)
[02:35:05] <deucalion> but... no rush anywhere... I'm more than happy with the way development is happening, so I'm just happily watching as everything progresses :)
[02:35:33] <deucalion> .oO( and maybe I'll have a patch or two as well some day ). </dreaming>
[02:35:40] <deucalion> ;)
[02:35:44] <iono> :-)
[02:36:03] <ALok> I have a question, when darcs has one of those "commit"s, it actally changes the code right?
[02:36:41] <ALok> so if i go and download it now i should get "bookmarks"
[02:36:46] <ALok> and some other stuff here right?
[02:36:47] <Kev> correct
[02:37:09] <Kev> those things psidekick reports are notifications of changes to the mainline darcs repo
[02:37:25] <ALok> nice
[02:37:38] <マチェック> BTW: it does not report who made the change
[02:37:49] <ALok> lol
[02:38:01] <マチェック> is this on purpose to hide remko's thousands of commits? ;)
[02:38:08] <deucalion> "Mon Jun 19 18:42:58 CEST 2006 Remko Troncon <remko@psi-im.org> - * Avatars are back"... weeeee :-) *happy*
[02:38:16] <マチェック> hmm
[02:38:25] <マチェック> were I blind, or it was changed? :)
[02:38:31] <deucalion> (sorry for posting the email addy)
[02:38:31] <Kev> yeah, remko, what was that 'avatars are back' message about?
[02:39:07] <deucalion> I have a psi trunk checkout from yesterday where there are NO avatars whatsoever in chats, except in the mousehover info
[02:39:17] <deucalion> (i.e. in the roster, contactinfo hover+details)
[02:39:26] <remko> i broke avatars yesterday
[02:39:27] <deucalion> but if it works again, who cares ;)
[02:39:30] <remko> they weren't showed anymore
[02:39:38] <remko> because of my option move
[02:39:47] <deucalion> true
[02:39:58] <deucalion> except for those who knew the new location of the option ;)
[02:40:19] <remko> well, only if they would set 'show avatars' to false
[02:40:26] <remko> only then would they see an avatar
[02:40:31] <remko> so that doesn't really make sense ;)
[02:40:37] <deucalion> mmh
[02:40:42] <deucalion> *setting it to false*
[02:40:45] <deucalion> :>
[02:40:58] <iono> har har
[02:42:24] <deucalion> "senseless options? as long as they work..." (sounds like a new ad for microsoft ;) )
[02:46:20] <deucalion> gd n8 then :)
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[03:35:53] <ALok> if i get dracs to update files... do i have to recompile everything?
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[03:36:27] <マチェック> ALok: qmake, make should be ok
[03:36:52] <マチェック> but if it crashes, do make clean ;)
[03:36:55] <tresni> マチェック: What language is your nick? Apparently I don't have it on windows so your nick is a bunch of boxes ;)
[03:37:07] <マチェック> tresni: you need Japanese font
[03:37:36] <マチェック> BTW: They say that Vista will have them installed by default :)
[03:37:37] <tresni> nihonjin desuka? [sorry, my japanesse is rudimentary at best, 1 year of college Japanese]
[03:38:10] <マチェック> sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not, and your Japanese is probably much better than my ;)
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[03:38:15] <ALok> うるさい
[03:38:20] <c00i90wn> Kev: Please try to reproduce the bug with notifications if you can :S
[03:38:26] <マチェック> ALok: don't be rude ;)
[03:38:29] <ALok> lol
[03:38:34] <c00i90wn> Kev: beacause it renders my psi almost unusable
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[03:38:38] <ALok> its my favorite phrase!
[03:38:49] <マチェック> ALok: soudesuka
[03:38:57] <マチェック> but it's a bit rude ;)
[03:38:59] <ALok> = "o rly?"
[03:39:07] <マチェック> yes, sth like this
[03:39:24] <tresni> Alok: no japanese font so not sure what you said ;) romaji?
[03:39:32] <ALok> "urusai"
[03:40:08] tresni sulks into the corner
[03:40:13] <ALok> lol
[03:40:19] <ALok> thats like the only thing i know...
[03:40:32] <マチェック> ALok: so it's time for you to learn "gomen nasai" ;)
[03:40:48] <ALok> lol
[03:40:53] c00i90wn leaves the room
[03:40:57] <ALok> actually i took a year of japanese...
[03:41:00] <ALok> then forgot it all
[03:41:08] <tresni> nohongo o hanashimasu, demo mozukashi desu.
[03:41:17] <tresni> nihongo, not nohono.
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[03:41:27] <tresni> and my romaji sucks but
[03:41:35] <ALok> how can your romanji suck?
[03:41:43] <c00i90wn> there we go again :(
[03:41:44] <ALok> you only remmber it in hiragana?
[03:42:07] <マチェック> tresni: but at least you write "but" at the end of the sentence: I know two Japanese who talk this way :)
[03:43:24] <ALok> o i know what i also know... "kawaii~~~"
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[03:45:54] <ALok> i have an idea... i think Psi should detect when i lock my computer, or go in to screen saver or whatnot... and it should go idle, and when it goes idle, it should also lower my priority.
[03:46:07] <マチェック> ALok: it's work in progress
[03:46:09] <ALok> and when it detects that i comeback.. it should return everything to normal
[03:46:16] <マチェック> at least it was some time ago ;)
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[03:49:52] <ALok> brb
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[03:53:30] <ALok> hey, how does remote control work?
[03:53:38] <ALok> is it not passworded or anything?
[03:53:47] <Kev> it's not
[03:53:56] <ALok> um
[03:54:00] <マチェック> but it works only from the same bare jid
[03:54:06] <ALok> um
[03:54:14] <ALok> ok...
[03:54:31] <ALok> why does the menu item show up on everyone?
[03:54:52] <マチェック> it's "execute command", not "remote control"
[03:54:59] <Kev> because any contact may allow remote control
[03:55:01] <マチェック> there may be other commands, too
[03:55:07] <ALok> o...
[03:55:17] <ALok> :|
[03:55:21] <Kev> and indeed, it's execute command, not only remote control
[03:55:29] <ALok> o...
[03:55:34] <ALok> jep?
[03:55:49] <マチェック> !jep 50
[03:56:01] <マチェック> (I'll be guessing ;))
[03:56:01] <psidekick> マチェック: JEP-0050: Ad-Hoc Commands:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0050.html
[03:56:10] <マチェック> yay, first hit! :)
[03:56:27] <ALok> nice...
[03:57:22] <Kev> gn
[03:57:27] <ALok> booo
[03:57:45] <c00i90wn> Kev: gn take a look at that bug when you can please, take care
[03:57:58] <ALok> o, if bookmarks are supported but there is no UI...
[03:58:00] <ALok> what does that mean
[03:58:07] <ALok> how is it supported?
[03:58:22] <ALok> like the retreive?
[03:58:36] <c00i90wn> ALok: There is no way to create them but you can have autojoin conferences and they work
[03:58:49] <ALok> o
[03:58:50] <ALok> nice
[03:58:54] <c00i90wn> ALok: You can use xml console to create them
[03:59:00] <ALok> yea i was just going to do that...
[03:59:10] <ALok> but i doubt it will work...
[03:59:17] <ALok> i mean which server support it..
[03:59:36] <c00i90wn> ALok: The server needs to support jep 49
[03:59:38] <c00i90wn> !jep 59
[03:59:43] <c00i90wn> oops
[03:59:46] <psidekick> c00i90wn: JEP-0059: Result Set Manipulation:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0059.html
[03:59:52] <c00i90wn> !jep 49
[03:59:54] <psidekick> c00i90wn: JEP-0049: Private XML Storage:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0049.html
[04:00:33] <c00i90wn> ALok: Ejabberd supports it for example
[04:00:51] <ALok> well thats great.... ejabberd... i use google...
[04:00:56] <ALok> and some others...
[04:01:01] <ALok> jabber.ork.uk
[04:01:15] <ALok> and... a private one....
[04:01:17] <ALok> i should check that
[04:01:58] <c00i90wn> well, you can try and see which servers support it :P
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[04:04:46] <ALok> amazingly each gave a differnt errror message
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[04:08:31] <c00i90wn> grrr this psi bug is quite annoying
[04:08:41] <ALok> what?
[04:09:01] <c00i90wn> ALok: I think it only happens on win32 but give it a try
[04:09:10] <ALok> i am on win32
[04:09:27] <ALok> can ejabberd support multiple domains?
[04:09:28] <c00i90wn> ALok: ah awesome, and using latest trunk?
[04:09:35] <c00i90wn> yes
[04:09:37] <ALok> i just compiled
[04:10:36] <c00i90wn> ok, I'll go PM to send you my jid
[04:10:40] <c00i90wn> and give it a try
[04:10:49] <ALok> ?
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[04:12:50] <ALok> :(
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[04:13:45] <c00i90wn> ALok: oh ok found a way to reproduce the bug
[04:13:54] <ALok> o?
[04:13:58] <c00i90wn> ALok: Second click your own contact
[04:14:07] <c00i90wn> click
[04:14:11] <c00i90wn> on send message
[04:14:17] <c00i90wn> write a message and send it
[04:14:34] <c00i90wn> once received try to double click on your own contact
[04:14:40] <c00i90wn> to open the message
[04:14:50] <c00i90wn> and see if it crashes or something
[04:15:49] <ALok> i just did
[04:15:53] <albert> Doesn't crash here.
[04:15:59] <ALok> no crash here
[04:15:59] <c00i90wn> mmm
[04:16:11] <c00i90wn> I wonder why it's crashing here then :S
[04:16:19] <albert> You use an old version?
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[04:16:55] <albert> remko fixed a segfault 8 hours ago.
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[04:17:11] <ALok> try a clean build?
[04:17:31] <c00i90wn> yes I always do a clean build
[04:17:40] <c00i90wn> and I think I compiled that fix already
[04:17:49] <c00i90wn> but I'm going to try again
[04:19:33] <ALok> ooo nice, psi can get version number from google clients now
[04:21:02] <ALok> i wonder when that happened...
[04:21:59] <c00i90wn> always was
[04:22:03] <ALok> no...
[04:22:11] <ALok> in .10 i could not see google client versions
[04:22:20] <ALok> like others i could Psi and Gaim and such
[04:22:25] <c00i90wn> ah, long time no use 0.10 :P
[04:22:25] <ALok> but not google clients
[04:23:35] <ALok> is there no client caps for "exec command" ?
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[04:24:39] <ALok> you know when i tri to acces the director where my build of psi is... psi's cpu usage goesto 100
[04:24:46] <ALok> windows is wierd
[04:25:20] <ALok> uh oh i feel like my computer is going to dye
[04:25:22] <ALok> die*
[04:27:19] <c00i90wn> that has nothing to do with accessing the directory
[04:27:27] <c00i90wn> AFAIK that's a qt problem
[04:27:43] <c00i90wn> that's fired up by the event bar
[04:27:47] <ALok> but it only did it when i accessed the dir
[04:27:50] <ALok> twice now
[04:28:01] <ALok> and my eventbar is off i think
[04:28:17] <ALok> src/widgets/busywidget.cpp looks nice...
[04:28:24] <ALok> i think its branding time!
[04:29:39] <c00i90wn> ...
[04:29:44] <c00i90wn> no clue
[04:29:52] <ALok> its the little 5 panel flippy thing
[04:29:55] <c00i90wn> seems too weird for me
[04:30:04] <ALok> you know when it is getting something...
[04:30:10] <ALok> and it flips in the bottom left corner
[04:30:29] <c00i90wn> ??
[04:30:46] <ALok> like in services discovery
[04:30:48] <c00i90wn> anyways gotta go
[04:30:49] <ALok> or vcard
[04:30:53] <c00i90wn> ah
[04:30:54] <c00i90wn> :P
[04:31:18] <c00i90wn> you think that might be causing it?
[04:31:42] <ALok> no...
[04:31:45] <ALok> i am branding it
[04:37:16] hawke leaves the room
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[04:38:17] <hawke> Is there any patch out there to enable SASL support in Psi?
[04:38:26] <ALok> doubt it
[04:38:37] <ALok> no idea though
[04:38:45] <hawke> I have an idea that there is one...
[04:38:49] <hawke> but no idea where it would be.
[04:39:14] <ALok> well all i know is that iris has no problems ...
[04:39:23] <hawke> According to a page I found, "Psi works, with patches to fix XMPP compliance and enable the SASL support which is already included in the qca-sasl module. It supports security layers. Dealing with mechanism failure is rather primitive."
[04:39:23] <ALok> its just psi needs to be converted...
[04:39:24] <ALok> so i dunno
[04:39:36] <ALok> no idea
[04:39:44] c00i90wn leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[04:39:51] c00i90wn joins the room
[04:40:00] <ALok> where did you see this?
[04:40:08] <ALok> actally brb
[04:40:11] ALok leaves the room
[04:40:15] <hawke> http://j2.openaether.org/mediawiki/index.php/Kerberos
[04:40:58] ALok joins the room
[04:41:01] <hawke> wb
[04:41:26] <ALok> hehe this is nice...
[04:41:34] <ALok> i modified the little flippy thingy!
[04:41:51] <hawke> "little flippy thingy"?
[04:41:58] <ALok> in the bottom left corner
[04:42:03] <ALok> of vcard and stuff
[04:42:14] <hawke> ah
[04:42:18] <ALok> so now instead of " PSI "
[04:42:21] <ALok> it says "ALOK!"
[04:42:24] <hawke> noice
[04:43:53] <ALok> hrm...
[04:44:16] <ALok> you're right there should be a patch...
[04:44:28] <ALok> i belive the suse distro has a version
[04:44:33] <ALok> but i dunno much about this stuff
[04:53:46] マチェック joins the room
[04:54:29] <hawke> Yeah, nor do I. But it sure would be nice to have.
[04:54:36] <ALok> why?
[04:55:03] <hawke> Well, because I've set up a kerberos domain and I'm interested in authenticating Jabber against it.
[05:14:50] <VxJasonxV> anybody know of a good scp utility for windows other than putty's pscp ?
[05:14:53] <VxJasonxV> a good gui, mainly
[05:15:01] <VxJasonxV> WinSCP is soooooooo SLOW and boggling
[05:15:03] <ALok> winscp
[05:15:04] <VxJasonxV> (mind boggling, that is)
[05:15:16] <ALok> winscp is faster than putty
[05:15:21] <ALok> but still slow
[05:15:27] <ALok> ssh is gonna be slow i think
[05:15:32] <マチェック> VxJasonxV: they sat there is a total commander plugin, but I never tested it
[05:15:44] <マチェック> *they say
[05:15:48] <VxJasonxV> total commander?
[05:15:52] <ALok> on 10mbit line... fastest over ssh i ever got was 600KB/s
[05:15:58] <VxJasonxV> putty is slow?
[05:16:02] <VxJasonxV> I've never had any problems with it
[05:16:06] <VxJasonxV> do you mean pscp, or putty in general?
[05:16:06] <ALok> i used openssh
[05:16:14] <マチェック> it's a file manager, a bit like norton
[05:16:18] <ALok> i was forwading http over ssh
[05:16:18] <マチェック> (shareware)
[05:16:21] <ALok> to try speeds
[05:16:36] <ALok> using filezilla (which uses putty stuff) is sloow
[05:16:43] <ALok> winscp is slow
[05:17:31] <hawke> I'm pretty sure that the scp protocol in general is slow
[05:17:42] <マチェック> remember that all the data is crypted, so maybe this takes some time
[05:17:45] <ALok> scp is better than sftp
[05:17:49] <ALok> you have ftp?
[05:18:05] <ALok> could try ftp forwarded through ssh using dynamic portforwarding
[05:18:23] <ALok> i would use openssh ( i use cygwin version )
[05:18:33] <ALok> ssh -D8080 user@host
[05:18:37] <ALok> opens a socks proxy
[05:18:51] <ALok> use ftp client connect through the socks proxy
[05:20:30] <マチェック> http://www.smog.pl/wideo/1473/test_mocy_turbin_boeinga_747/ <- I didn't really expect such power (but yes, when I think of it, it makes sense)
[05:21:52] <hawke> Hehe
[05:22:12] <ALok> so hawke you have ftp?
[05:22:23] <hawke> that one, eh -- I like the other, "Jet blast is loud. And dangerous" [truck goes flying across the tarmac]
[05:22:34] <hawke> ALok: eh? Well, yeah I have ftp -- why?
[05:22:48] <ALok> why scp?
[05:23:43] <hawke> ALok: simple to use to transfer a file in one command line entry. But I'm not the one complaining about its speed
[05:24:00] <ALok> curl?
[05:24:05] <ALok> wput?
[05:24:19] <ALok> who was?
[05:24:27] <ALok> jason?
[05:24:30] <hawke> yeah
[05:24:34] <ALok> o...
[05:26:31] <hawke> Hmm, Psi needs a kick reason. :-)
[05:26:53] c00i90wn leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
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[05:28:42] c00i90wn leaves the room
[05:29:08] <マチェック> you mean muc kick?
[05:29:23] <hawke> マチェック:
[05:29:25] <hawke> bleah
[05:29:25] <hawke> yes
[05:29:34] <hawke> tabbing to your name is hard!
[05:29:59] <マチェック> almost like shutting down win 2003 server ;)
[05:30:11] <マチェック> hawke: type マ and press tab ;)
[05:30:17] <hawke> Yeah, thanks.
[05:30:21] ALok leaves the room
[05:30:31] <マチェック> hawke: which OS are you using?
[05:30:31] hawke looks for the マ key.
[05:30:34] <hawke> Linux
[05:30:39] ALok joins the room
[05:30:58] <マチェック> linux users are always so proud of so easy key bindings ;)
[05:31:24] <hawke> It's not about easy key bindings; I could do it if I knew something to bind it to. :-p
[05:31:32] <hawke> but anyway, yes I mean muc kick.
[05:31:35] <hawke> [reasons]
[05:32:12] <ALok> マチェック: if i hit tab 18 times i get the name!
[05:32:38] <マチェック> see? it's not impossible ;)
[05:32:38] <hawke> マチェック: only once here, because it was my most recent tab completion...
[05:32:50] <ALok> most recent?
[05:33:00] <hawke> Hey, that'd be an idea: have the tab go in reverse order of most recent people to speak in the room.
[05:33:11] <ALok> you patch that?
[05:33:11] <hawke> ALok: Yes. I used that tab completion last...
[05:33:16] <hawke> ALok: Nope.
[05:33:19] <ALok> huh?
[05:33:22] <ALok> mine does not do that
[05:33:24] <マチェック> hawke: I think this is not a new idea :)
[05:33:34] <ALok> its not a new idea
[05:33:37] <ALok> like irssi does that...
[05:33:39] <hawke> ALok: Just plain "tab" without any beginning to type will use your most recent tab completions.
[05:33:47] <ALok> i did
[05:33:52] <hawke> of course it's not new, but it would be new to Psi.
[05:33:56] <ALok> hawke:
[05:33:58] <ALok> albert:
[05:33:59] <ALok> ALok:
[05:34:01] <ALok> deucalion:
[05:34:04] <ALok> fLegmatik:
[05:34:13] <ALok> see its not true
[05:34:17] <ALok> its always the same order
[05:34:19] <hawke> Hm. It is here.
[05:34:29] <hawke> It puts the last person I tab completed first
[05:34:34] <ALok> i just built like an hour earlier
[05:34:38] <hawke> followed by alphabetical order, looks like
[05:34:51] <hawke> hmm
[05:34:52] <ALok> マチェック:
[05:34:54] <hawke> ALok: 2 tabs
[05:34:57] <hawke> albert: 3 tabs
[05:35:01] <hawke> ALok: 4 tabs
[05:35:04] <hawke> deucalion: 5 tabs
[05:35:08] <ALok> hrm
[05:35:12] <ALok> um
[05:35:15] <ALok> someone else talk
[05:35:19] <hawke> test
[05:35:22] <ALok> other than you hawke
[05:35:25] <hawke> oh
[05:35:29] <マチェック> like me? :)
[05:35:32] <ALok> hawke:
[05:35:35] <ALok> nope
[05:35:41] <ALok> ALok:
[05:35:46] <ALok> albert:
[05:35:52] <ALok> deucalion:
[05:35:57] <ALok> nope...
[05:36:04] <ALok> its not doing anything that makes sense here
[05:36:09] <ALok> its like is not logical
[05:36:10] <hawke> マチェック:
[05:36:16] <ALok> unless there is a pattern i cannot see
[05:36:22] <hawke> マチェック: test
[05:36:30] <hawke> Hmm
[05:36:43] <マチェック> hawke: this is my 1st
[05:36:43] <hawke> yeah, it's not as simple as I was thinking.
[05:36:46] <マチェック> hawke: again
[05:36:49] <マチェック> albert: 2nd
[05:37:01] <hawke> マチェック: Now this is the second
[05:37:01] <マチェック> hawke: 1st
[05:37:04] <hawke> albert: 3rd
[05:37:10] <hawke> ALok: 4th
[05:37:22] <hawke> 1 tab does nothing at all for me.
[05:37:32] <ALok> yea
[05:37:34] <マチェック> yes, one does nothing
[05:37:37] <ALok> nothing on the firest tab
[05:37:47] <マチェック> by "1st" I mean 1st that appears
[05:37:51] <hawke> k
[05:37:55] <hawke> マチェック: 1st
[05:37:57] <hawke> albert: 2nd
[05:37:58] <ALok> hawke:
[05:38:00] <ALok> albert:
[05:38:03] <ALok> ALok:
[05:38:03] <hawke> albert: 3rd
[05:38:09] <ALok> hrm...
[05:38:11] <ALok> ALok:
[05:38:12] <ALok> albert:
[05:38:14] <マチェック> now the question is: who'll be the 1st to check the source :)
[05:38:18] <hawke> lol
[05:38:22] <ALok> lol!
[05:39:11] <ALok> no idea where to look
[05:39:29] <マチェック> so it has to be me? :)
[05:39:49] <ALok> it'd be funny if its some bad code
[05:39:54] <ALok> like its not init correctly
[05:39:57] <ALok> and just does random stuff
[05:39:58] <マチェック> like random() :)
[05:40:03] <ALok> no... not on purpose
[05:40:10] <ALok> just like uses some uninited var or osmething
[05:45:38] <マチェック> maybe I know
[05:46:04] <マチェック> ALok: say sth to me, and then somebody else say sth (but not to me)
[05:46:43] <ALok> マチェック: wow you're right
[05:46:51] <ALok> you were the first tab
[05:47:04] <マチェック> ok
[05:47:09] <ALok> hawke: i should be first on your list
[05:47:20] <マチェック> the first tab is the person who last wrote to you
[05:47:33] <ALok> looks like it
[05:47:36] <ALok> マチェック: :)
[05:47:45] <マチェック> looks like this is what the code says ;)
[05:47:53] <hawke> マチェック: Ahhhh
[05:47:55] <hawke> makes sense
[05:48:12] <ALok> though it really makes no sense
[05:48:26] <ALok> it should just tab in order of who last did something in the channel
[05:48:38] <hawke> it's not what i'd do, but at least its logical now
[05:48:47] <ALok> :)
[05:49:03] <ALok> which file is it in?
[05:49:08] <マチェック> http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=headblob;f=/src/groupchatdlg.cpp
[05:49:15] <マチェック> search for "lastReferer"
[05:49:17] <ALok> o...
[05:52:11] hawke punches Ubuntu for picking a 4-letter word beginning with "e" for their new distro
[05:52:25] <ALok> east?
[05:52:32] <hawke> edgy
[05:52:38] <ALok> why?
[05:52:49] <hawke> too similar to Debian's "etch"
[05:53:00] <ALok> who uses debian?
[05:53:08] <ALok> o wait.. my webhost does
[05:53:16] <ALok> stable at that...
[05:53:27] <ALok> still using like 2.4 kernel
[05:59:58] <マチェック> aaa! it's user unfriendly when you need to restart web browser to install new extension, but it becomes irritating when the same goes for music player...
[06:00:22] <ALok> lol...
[06:00:28] <ALok> there is an extention
[06:00:33] <ALok> "Restart Firefox"
[06:00:36] <ALok> i use it a bit
[06:00:47] <マチェック> hmm.. what does it do? :)
[06:01:09] <ALok> ... it actally adds a menu option to File... before Exit
[06:01:19] <hawke> マチェック: Hmm, I'd prefer to restart my music player vs my browser with its eleventy tabs
[06:01:31] <ALok> sessionmanager
[06:01:42] <ALok> sessionmanager is like sessionsaver... only better
[06:01:42] <マチェック> yes, sessionmanager
[06:01:58] <マチェック> but I cannot restart music player without stopping the music!
[06:02:20] <ALok> winamp?
[06:02:44] <マチェック> foobar2000
[06:03:21] <マチェック> I think there is no player which keeps playing while being restarted ;)
[06:03:46] <ALok> well... o well
[06:03:51] <ALok> don't install so much stuff?
[06:04:06] <マチェック> I'm just upgrading ;)
[06:05:50] <マチェック> anyway, I'm the type that needs to install soooooooo much ;)
[06:06:12] <ALok> install it all at once?
[06:06:21] <ALok> i install alot too
[06:06:37] <ALok> i found out having lots of extentions in firefox boggs it down a bit...
[06:06:42] <ALok> but i can't find any i don't need
[06:07:07] <マチェック> "sadly" I visit foobar's website too often to collect more than two updated extensions at once ;)
[06:08:18] <ALok> i usually only get plugins when i upgrade winamp
[06:09:04] <マチェック> too many new features appear often that it would be a waste for me to update so rarely
[06:10:23] <マチェック> (does this sentence make sense? ;))
[06:10:57] <ALok> i guess i just don't care enough about music
[06:11:39] <マチェック> you know, I'm mostly updating GUI components ;)
[06:12:05] <hawke> I don't understand why people like foobar2000
[06:12:54] <マチェック> I couldn't find ape plugin for winamp and installed foobar, and somehow it stayed :)
[06:13:11] <マチェック> hmm.. maybe I like customizable things
[06:13:15] <ALok> ape...
[06:13:41] <ALok> i think winamp has that
[06:13:57] <マチェック> my winamp didn't have it at the time I needed it ;)
[06:14:03] <ALok> why?
[06:14:09] <ALok> what kinda music is in ape?
[06:14:30] <hawke> lossless
[06:14:37] <ALok> ble
[06:14:42] <hawke> what?
[06:14:42] <ALok> flac ftw
[06:14:45] <マチェック> music from audiophile friend ;)
[06:14:45] <hawke> I agree
[06:14:50] <ALok> convert?
[06:14:52] <hawke> flac > ape
[06:15:05] <ALok> lossless to lossless is ok to convert :)
[06:17:53] <マチェック> hawke: plus I can do tricky things in foobar, like tagging music both in Japanese in English and display both
[06:18:13] <マチェック> (yes, I am aware that most people don't need this ;))
[06:18:17] <hawke> マチェック: I could use that.
[06:18:27] <hawke> I wasn't aware that tag standards supported it.
[06:18:40] <ALok> i hate tags
[06:18:50] <ALok> cause all my music have messed up tags
[06:18:52] <マチェック> hawke: I just create my own tags and then write a script to display them
[06:18:54] <ALok> from crazy encoders
[06:19:09] <hawke> ALok: what the heck encoder do you use?
[06:19:15] <マチェック> BTW: foobar has built-in masstagger
[06:19:29] <hawke> ALok: I wasn't aware that anyone used anything but LAME and oggenc.
[06:19:41] <ALok> um...
[06:19:43] <ALok> not me
[06:19:45] <ALok> i download music
[06:19:55] <ALok> and people have bad encoders
[06:19:59] <ALok> i dunno what they use
[06:20:02] <ALok> but they are usually nubs
[06:20:02] <hawke> Ah. Hmm, I guess I've never run into that.
[06:20:14] <ALok> people with tags enabled... but blank fields
[06:20:29] <ALok> or have bad tags... like they are all garbage
[06:20:54] <マチェック> ALok: garbage? you mean wrong data? or unreadable?
[06:21:00] <hawke> "someone" should do a good musicbrainz-based tagger. Actually, someone should do a better version of musicbrainz...
[06:21:00] <ALok> unreadble
[06:21:06] <iono> alors
[06:21:22] <マチェック> ALok: then you probably need to convert from Chinese codepage or sth ;)
[06:21:33] <ALok> no.,..
[06:21:39] <hawke> A lot of players and/or taggers seem to have trouble with unicode.
[06:21:40] <ALok> they were supposed to be in english
[06:21:42] dcarns joins the room
[06:21:45] <hawke> Everyone should just freaking use unicode.
[06:21:49] <ALok> utf8
[06:21:53] <ALok> not unicode
[06:21:55] <ALok> unicode sucks
[06:22:02] <hawke> ALok: umm. utf8 is unicode, dude.
[06:22:02] <ALok> utf8 is the way to go
[06:22:07] <マチェック> ALok: "unicode" is not a name of encoding ;)
[06:22:23] <ALok> unicode usually is like "utf16"
[06:22:24] <マチェック> what you probably meant is utf16
[06:22:34] <ALok> but that is what unicode was...
[06:22:39] <ALok> then there was utf8
[06:22:48] <hawke> ALok: utf16 is also unicode, but so is utf8, utf7, utf32 ... etc.
[06:22:56] <ALok> but utf8 is more specific
[06:23:06] <マチェック> ALok: I can write you sth in English, but using characters outside of ascii
[06:23:10] <ALok> since when you say unicode many people think utf16
[06:23:29] <マチェック> ＡＢＣ
[06:23:34] <ALok> yes wide chars
[06:23:39] <ALok> i know about them
[06:23:48] <ALok> you should type like that from now own
[06:23:50] <ALok> on*
[06:23:51] <マチェック> maybe the music was tagged this way
[06:24:01] <ALok> no...
[06:24:01] <マチェック> why? :)
[06:24:02] <hawke> Anyway, I honestly don't care if its utf8, utf16, utf32, or punycode for that matter. As long as there's a way for the program to know what it is and interpret it appropriately.
[06:24:13] <ALok> because its really garbage...
[06:24:27] <マチェック> ALok: do you have a sample?
[06:24:32] <ALok> sometimes its too short to have name
[06:24:35] <hawke> but I do agree that utf8 would be the best encoding.
[06:24:42] Rastan leaves the room
[06:24:44] <ALok> well i don;t have one...
[06:24:50] <ALok> because i have too much music
[06:24:56] dcarns leaves the room
[06:24:56] <マチェック> hawke: but still there are many old programs which don't implement unicode
[06:24:59] <ALok> and i don't remmber where the bad ones are
[06:25:08] <マチェック> (and there are many new like this, too)
[06:25:12] <hawke> ALok: a lot of the time a null byte will cut it off, so it seems shorter than it really is.
[06:25:29] <マチェック> yup
[06:25:45] <hawke> マチェック: Yes, hence my comment, "a lot of players and/or taggers seem to have trouble with unicode"
[06:26:00] <hawke> the best is stuff like xmms
[06:26:01] <マチェック> hawke: sorry, it's 4:30am here ;)
[06:26:14] <マチェック> ALok: did it have an often appearing character looking a bit like "f"?
[06:26:15] <hawke> where the playlist doesn't show it properly...
[06:26:21] <ALok> no
[06:26:28] <ALok> it was usually too short to be the right name
[06:26:31] <ALok> like 4 chars or something
[06:26:42] <ALok> i know what utf8 in ascii looks like
[06:26:45] <hawke> ...but the gnome toolbar shows the song title just fine.
[06:26:56] <ALok> winamp still has problems with utf8
[06:26:58] <ALok> its a bother
[06:27:38] <マチェック> still?? I thought winamp5 (or 3?) was meant to be so international-enabled?
[06:28:11] <ALok> i think winamp 2 actally had better utf8 support at the very end
[06:28:21] <ALok> then the merged code like broke it again
[06:28:21] <マチェック> hmm
[06:28:36] <ALok> i don't remmber the history of winamp
[06:28:42] <マチェック> I have it somewhere
[06:28:49] <ALok> oldversion.com ?
[06:29:23] <マチェック> no, still installed :)
[06:29:53] <マチェック> 2.91
[06:31:42] <マチェック> doesn't seem to work for me
[06:31:42] <ALok> i need to sleep :(
[06:31:48] <ALok> then i mgith be wrong
[06:31:55] <ALok> i just know that winamp has poor utf8 support
[06:32:03] <ALok> and i just stopped reading titles
[06:32:04] <マチェック> or maybe I'm not good at testing
[06:32:07] <ALok> let it shuffle
[06:32:17] <ALok> i hate websites in sjis
[06:32:24] <ALok> breaks things sometimes..
[06:32:28] <マチェック> ALok: they are ok
[06:32:37] <ALok> in webbrowers yea,,,
[06:32:39] <マチェック> the bad thing is that usually they don't advertise the encoding
[06:32:42] <ALok> but in like torrents and stuff
[06:32:57] <ALok> things that are expected to be utf8
[06:33:07] <ALok> i download a torrent file in sjis and everyting breaks
[06:33:23] <マチェック> hmm
[06:33:36] <マチェック> try using applocale to open it, maybe it will help
[06:35:55] <ALok> ?
[06:35:57] <ALok> what is that?
[06:36:25] <マチェック> it's a tricky app from MS: it allows you to run a program in another language environment
[06:36:38] <マチェック> so you can run winamp and make it think it is working on Japanese windows
[06:36:46] <マチェック> then you can see tags written in jis
[06:37:01] <ALok> where do i get it?
[06:37:12] <ALok> actally tht is the last thing.
[06:37:14] <ALok> i am going to bed
[06:37:20] <マチェック> on ms site, somewhere
[06:37:24] <ALok> ok
[06:37:26] <ALok> bye
[06:38:05] <マチェック> ALok: http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/apploc.mspx
[06:39:55] <マチェック> http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/outreach/dnloads/soccer.mspx :)
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[09:18:01] <iono> It's an examples, it's a plane, no... it's a bird.
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[09:24:14] <deucalion> bird? beat me to it...
[09:26:13] <deucalion> of course getting up early... *grabbing coffee*... mmh
[09:32:52] <Restle> Kxe...
[09:33:34] <Restle> When i reply message the cursor is in a Subject field...
[09:35:40] <Restle> by default..
[09:36:14] <Restle> it is not good :)
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[10:08:12] <IceRAM> VxJasonxV^Work: should I understand that you forgot Psi running again?
[10:08:24] <IceRAM> :)
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[10:38:16] <slubman> with remote commands, this shouldn't be a problem
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[10:49:13] <iono> D'oh!
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[11:45:49] <VxJasonxV^Work> IceRAM: ?
[11:45:54] <VxJasonxV^Work> I leave my home instance on intentionally
[11:45:54] <iono> french fries of course!
[11:46:06] <VxJasonxV^Work> I'm now at work and wish to participate
[11:47:14] <VxJasonxV^Work> ... maybe :)
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[11:57:32] <Spike411> I hope there'll be Psi 0.11 stable release when I come back home. :)
[11:57:39] <Spike411> Gotta catch my plane now. :)
[11:57:52] <Spike411> cya guys in September
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[12:15:52] <BartVB> Hmm, if you get kicked out of a room the dialog with the room content is closed immediately after you clikc 'OK'. That's annoying :)
[12:15:53] <VxJasonxV^Work> :O
[12:15:56] <Nyco> hi
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[12:33:53] <remko> http://www.jivesoftware.org/community/thread.jspa?messageID=123048&tstart=0#123048
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[13:18:00] <iono> Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. narf
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[13:35:35] <Max_> hi
[13:36:20] <Max_> is there anybody who know when remko come back ?
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[13:45:02] <albert> Never!
[13:49:35] <Max_> lol and why ?
[13:53:23] <albert> He just logged out and hasn't been seen since.
[13:54:48] <Max_> ok thx
[13:58:27] <Nyco> "hasn't been seen since." : difficult to pronounce.. ;-)
[13:58:50] <Max_> Nyco : surtout pour nous ;)
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[14:01:18] <albert> It is quite obvious. If he had logged back in since he logged out he would have been seen.
[14:03:54] <VxJasonxV^Work> He's bakc
[14:04:02] <VxJasonxV^Work> back,. even
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[14:22:01] <sinbad> wow quite a progress in the room :)
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[14:22:10] <sinbad> hello world
[14:23:09] <Kev> hello
[14:24:17] <sinbad> Kev does Psi-Daisy have it's own page? i was looking for the features and can't find it beside the DL page :)
[14:24:27] <Kev> no idea
[14:24:38] <Kev> Psi daisy's an unofficial patched build
[14:25:49] <sinbad> i know just thought michalj *maybe* have some description for it...
[14:26:02] <sinbad> well at least i tried ;)
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[14:34:16] <remko> sinbad: i don't think a lot of unofficial builds will keep standing after 0.11 :-)
[14:34:24] <remko> it will take a lot of work to re-build them ;)
[14:34:27] <Kev> indeed
[14:39:44] <albert> Maciag promised to do it atleast...
[14:40:31] <remko> cool :)
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[14:44:06] <sinbad> well, i'm not saying to stick to them, just a little try here and there u know ; ) saw the links on the wiki and hopped to see changelog or some page with additional features
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[14:51:04] <Kev> hawke: Psi does have kick reasons, this room seems to not be sending them
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[14:52:00] <ALok> why is it that the roster does not update till i click it sometimes?
[14:52:23] <sinbad> G day all.
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[14:59:00] <IceRAM> ALok: what do you mean?
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[15:09:38] Kev has set the subject to: Psi: Kicks for Communication (http://psi-im.org) | Room language: English | We often sleep, so if you don't get an answer immediately, hang around :) | Room logs now available at http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/
[15:27:04] knorg leaves the room
[15:42:19] <remko> Kev: maybe the "we often sleep" can be thrown away ?
[15:42:28] <remko> Kev: or do we still often sleep ?
[15:42:43] <ALok> i have transparency on... as it is by default.,...
[15:42:54] <ALok> i dunno if it has to do with it, but sometimes
[15:42:59] <ALok> i click on the roster
[15:43:07] <ALok> and like half the list appears or disappears
[15:43:14] <ALok> it seems it does not update till i lick it
[15:43:22] <ALok> like just now...
[15:43:47] <ALok> they con't come online
[15:43:47] <マチェック> till you do what? :)
[15:43:52] <ALok> and blink
[15:44:05] <ALok> it just does not appear untill i click the roster
[15:44:33] <ALok> you guys try and figure it out... it might be a windows only thing...
[15:44:37] <ALok> i have no idea
[15:44:49] <ALok> this happened in .10 too i thikink
[15:44:53] <ALok> bbl
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[15:49:43] <Kev> remko: I don't know, do we still sleep?
[15:49:52] <VxJasonxV^Work> "We often sleep" is worth keeping
[16:19:44] <remko> was there someone here interested in testing PEP with ejabberd ?
[16:20:12] <Kev> deucalion irrc
[16:20:13] <Kev> *iirc
[16:20:50] <remko> deucalion: if you want to test it, pull the latest patches, edit src.pro, uncomment PUBSUB_PRE18, make clean all, and you're set
[16:34:19] <R.H> Will nightly builds for OS X resume soon? The last one seems to be almost 2 months old.
[16:34:38] <remko> R.H: i don't have a machine to do the nightlies on
[16:34:50] <Kev> I do, but it has dodgy ram
[16:35:03] <Kev> if anyone wants to send me a stick of 512mb, I'll set up nightlies :)
[16:35:27] <remko> Kev: sure, i did all the scripting work, and you get the ram for free ;)
[16:35:29] <psidekick> 20 Jun 12:17 - Add conditional for pre-1.8 PubSub PEP support. - Add conditional for pre-1.8 PubSub PEP support. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060620121757-04f00-bdfaba4f7c08e4935ed2f84a9f3d991696a203b6.gz
[16:35:39] <Kev> if anyone sends me a stick of a gig, I'll do windows too ;)
[16:35:51] <Kev> remko: this souns entirely reasonable to me :)
[16:36:05] <remko> that's it
[16:36:06] <remko> i quit !
[16:36:10] <remko> and i take my scripts with me !
[16:36:17] <マチェック> kev, isn't norman doing windows builds?
[16:36:40] <remko> machekku: yes, but they don't have the Psi seal of approval :D
[16:37:03] <マチェック> and they're made using The Unsupported Compiler, I guess ;)
[16:38:03] <albert> Will a standard ejabberd-1.1.1 server work?
[16:38:15] <Kev> albert: with the pep patch, probably
[16:38:18] <Kev> unpatched, no
[16:38:23] <remko> indeed, you need legoscia's patch
[16:38:46] <albert> I bet he runs it on jabber.cd.chalmers.se...
[16:38:52] <albert> And I have an account there.
[16:39:12] <remko> he runs it on his private server
[16:39:20] <remko> it would be cool if it was on a public server as well
[16:39:38] <albert> Hmm.
[16:39:49] <remko> i'll test it
[16:40:05] <legoscia> some day, i will find a lot of free time and make a _real_ pep patch. that day has yet to come, though..
[16:40:21] <remko> legoscia: does it work on jabber.cd ?
[16:40:27] <remko> (saves me the testing)
[16:41:31] <remko> i guess it doesn't :(
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[16:42:00] <R.H> Kev: RAM for what model of Mac? I can probably stretch to some Crucial RAM.
[16:42:45] <Kev> heh, mac mini
[16:42:54] <ALok-work> o i love remote control!
[16:42:56] <R.H> G4, or Intel?
[16:43:04] <Kev> g4
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[16:45:54] <Kev> would you really donate ram to get the builds going again? :o
[16:46:23] <マチェック> Kev: but you can use them only for the builds ;)
[16:46:25] <R.H> Sure, it's only £32.89 for a 512MB stick. I'm just trying to think how best to do it.
[16:46:30] <ALok-work> lol modifing a mac
[16:46:35] <ALok-work> thats like oxymoronic
[16:46:40] VxJasonxV^Work pokes ALok-work
[16:46:41] <VxJasonxV^Work> shush :P
[16:46:52] <ALok-work> うるさい
[16:47:08] <Kev> マチェック: at the moment, the box is idle because the ram's corrupt and I'm too broke to replace it
[16:47:23] <ALok-work> we are all working hard.... right VxJasonxV^Work?
[16:47:34] <VxJasonxV^Work> right
[16:47:38] <Kev> changing theram in a mini is a pita, but it can be done
[16:47:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> gogo putty knives :)
[16:47:50] <ALok-work> pitas are to be eaten
[16:47:55] <Kev> VxJasonxV: yeah
[16:47:56] <ALok-work> putty is a good tool
[16:47:57] <R.H> So, do i do something like Paypal you the money and you buy the stick yourself, or do i buy it direct and get it sent to an address of your choosing?
[16:48:15] <VxJasonxV^Work> リライト
[16:48:16] <Kev> R.H: sending it to me directly would probably be ideal
[16:48:24] <VxJasonxV^Work> now that I freaking now how to type that out
[16:48:33] <ALok-work> how about buying me a mac mini?
[16:48:33] <VxJasonxV^Work> looks more straight edge in Sans Serif.
[16:48:40] <ALok-work> so i can make it into a gentoo server
[16:48:59] <R.H> OK, if you send me the address i'll order it now. Crucial send Special Delivery (you're in the UK, right?) so it should be with you tomorrow.
[16:49:27] <ALok-work> order it from like hong kong and get it shipped to the UK
[16:49:28] <Kev> R.H: you're very generous
[16:49:30] <Kev> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/people/kismith/contact.htm
[16:49:44] <R.H> ALok-work: If i had that much spare cash lying around i'd be buying myself a new Macbook.
[16:49:51] <remko> R.H: yeah, that's pretty cool of you
[16:49:59] <Kev> the new macbooks are pretty impressive indeed
[16:50:07] <ALok-work> i don't like the macbooks
[16:50:14] <ALok-work> i like the mac mini only for its size...
[16:50:15] <Kev> they have some issues I'm led to believe
[16:50:20] <ALok-work> but apple is way too overpriced
[16:50:27] <マチェック> ALok-work: うるさい、ばか！；）
[16:50:38] <ALok-work> heh
[16:50:39] <Kev> ALok-work: I think the macbooks are pretty good value actually
[16:50:45] <iono> :o)
[16:50:47] <Kev> not that I have the money to buy one
[16:50:51] <VxJasonxV^Work> (O:
[16:50:59] <ALok-work> what i want is the DLP LED projector...
[16:51:12] <Kev> £750 for a decent, fast laptop, running a good OS
[16:51:27] <ALok-work> i want more ram...
[16:51:28] VxJasonxV^Work has a DLP projector
[16:51:33] <VxJasonxV^Work> well
[16:51:35] VxJasonxV^Work 's roommate does
[16:51:37] <remko> and i want a toilet seat made out of gold
[16:51:39] <ALok-work> bu VxJasonxV^Work is it a DLP LED?
[16:51:51] <VxJasonxV^Work> It is a DLP, I am not 100% sure if it is a DLP LED
[16:51:58] <R.H> Kev: Is your Mac mini 1.25GHz or 1.42GHz? The RAM should be the same, but Crucial has different part numbers for them, and it's better to err on the side of caution.
[16:52:04] <ALok-work> http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/proj_pocket.asp
[16:52:14] <ALok-work> its prbbly not LED... since its a recent thing
[16:52:18] <ALok-work> like the last few months
[16:52:22] <Kev> R.H: it's a 1.42, but it really shouldn't matter
[16:52:27] <ALok-work> and they are small...
[16:52:31] <ALok-work> palm sized
[16:52:39] <ALok-work> some of them can run on batteries
[16:53:24] <ALok-work> :) my priority is 1337
[16:56:18] <Kev> R.H: if you order, please be sure to put my name on it' and not just send it to computer science
[16:56:39] <ALok-work> lol
[16:56:42] <Kev> else things will get very messy ;)
[16:57:05] <ALok-work> your school has a jabber server?
[16:57:16] <Kev> university, and yes
[16:57:38] <ALok-work> how nice of them...
[16:57:52] <Kev> ITS are an ok bunch
[16:58:00] <Kev> when you're not a 'user'
[16:58:12] <ALok-work> at my school, the IT people like hate smart people
[16:58:16] BartVB 's university is way too MS centric for that to happen :\
[16:58:28] <ALok-work> they like to be robotic mindless customer support
[16:58:42] <ALok-work> they don't like having to think
[16:59:17] <Kev> which is strange
[16:59:35] <Kev> because usualy approaching people with that mentality endears you to them no end
[16:59:57] <Kev> the support staff themselves have a hard time of it at our uni
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[17:00:13] <Kev> as there are lots of less able people looking for support
[17:00:23] <Kev> but the techies are alright
[17:00:27] <remko> we also have one of the best IT staff here, and a lot of people calling them "dumb"
[17:00:37] <Kev> remko: yeah
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[17:00:51] <ALok-work> our IT likes to tell people to reboot
[17:00:54] <Kev> there's a proliferatio of "us and them" unfortunately
[17:01:04] <Kev> ALok-work: it's damn good advice dealing with windows
[17:01:15] <remko> indeed, our IT staff doesn't even help with Windows
[17:01:21] <Kev> so I don't think you can (reasonably) begrudge them for that
[17:01:23] <ALok-work> but i can explain that i did, and why its not the problem... and ....
[17:01:38] <remko> rebooting is nine out of ten the solution to all problems ;)
[17:01:39] <ALok-work> they will continue to tell me to reboot
[17:02:10] <Kev> ALok-work: if you're asking someone for help, you have to be willing to do what they suggest, when they suggestit
[17:02:24] <Kev> you'd be suprised the number of times "oh, I already did that" turns out to be untrue
[17:02:26] <ALok-work> but i do...
[17:02:33] <remko> http://flyspray.psi-im.org/task/573
[17:02:35] <ALok-work> then they tell me to do the samething
[17:02:49] <ALok-work> so i stopped calling them...
[17:02:55] <remko> i mean
[17:02:58] <remko> isn't it big enough ?
[17:03:03] <remko> i'm going to make the font even biggen
[17:03:11] <ALok-work> actally i only call them when they do something like cut off my intrnet
[17:03:30] <Kev> when users come to me for support, I don't believe a thing they tell me, generally
[17:03:32] <remko> alok: yes, everyone always knows better than tech support ;)
[17:03:35] <Kev> because it's safest
[17:03:41] <VxJasonxV^Work> 573!
[17:03:42] <VxJasonxV^Work> go na mi
[17:03:47] <remko> alok: just as everyone always knows better than us saying our instructions don't work, but that they just didn't follow them
[17:03:54] <Kev> take this discussion with an old flatmate
[17:03:57] <ALok-work> well on qunu... what i do is let them think through the problem...
[17:04:03] <ALok-work> i lead them with questions
[17:04:07] <Kev> "Kevin, can you help me turn off my computer? it won't turn off"
[17:04:19] <Kev> 'hold down the power button until it's turned off'
[17:04:24] <Kev> "I did, and it's not turned off"
[17:04:36] <ALok-work> Kev: should add more things to the remote control...
[17:04:48] <ALok-work> like reboot
[17:04:52] <ALok-work> and shutdown
[17:05:17] <ALok-work> and "'splode"
[17:05:22] <Kev> and the girl didn't understand what she'd done wrong
[17:05:26] <remko> alok: yes, you are a security wizzard
[17:05:27] <Kev> people don't like to listen
[17:05:32] LRN joins the room
[17:05:38] <VxJasonxV^Work> anybody have an account @ unb that could enter a ticket for me?
[17:05:39] <remko> alok: did you ever think that now your server admin can reboot your machine ?
[17:05:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> I really don't feel like signing up there just to request this
[17:06:11] <Kev> VxJasonxV: is it a bug on the Psi forum?
[17:06:17] <VxJasonxV^Work> no, it's a feature request
[17:06:18] <Kev> we'll be changing from unb soonish
[17:06:22] <VxJasonxV^Work> oh?
[17:06:23] <VxJasonxV^Work> over to what?
[17:06:30] <Kev> don't know yet, probably phpbb
[17:06:39] <VxJasonxV^Work> nice
[17:06:40] <ALok-work> i want to say sourceforge....
[17:06:44] <VxJasonxV^Work> you'll be waiting for phpBB3, yes?
[17:06:47] <ALok-work> why not do sourceforge...?
[17:06:54] <BartVB> phpBB rocks :+
[17:06:58] <VxJasonxV^Work> :)
[17:07:08] <ALok-work> because i already have a sf account..
[17:07:11] <Kev> VxJasonxV: getting away from unb is my main priority
[17:07:16] <VxJasonxV^Work> ALok-work: unnecessary. They don't use cvs, they don't use svn, and the embedded forums blow
[17:07:24] <VxJasonxV^Work> oh, and they already have flyspray for bugs
[17:07:35] <VxJasonxV^Work> Kev: Why is that? Is there something I don't know about it?
[17:07:46] <ALok-work> they don't use cvs anymore?
[17:07:46] <Kev> it's quite inefficient
[17:07:53] <VxJasonxV^Work> ALok-work: darcs
[17:08:01] <ALok-work> i mean sf...
[17:08:09] <Kev> something like 50 independent mysql queries for a single page
[17:08:11] <VxJasonxV^Work> my whole point was sf is unnecessary
[17:08:13] <VxJasonxV^Work> Kev: ew
[17:08:20] <R.H> Kev: OK ordered the RAM for you (yes, i put your name on the address ;)). Sorry it took so long the Crucial site wouldn't let me edit the address properly for some reason.
[17:08:29] <Kev> that's why it takes several seconds to serve each page
[17:08:32] <ALok-work> there needs to be a way to merge forum and wiki
[17:08:38] <Kev> the poor mysql daemon's getting fried
[17:08:44] <VxJasonxV^Work> :/
[17:08:48] <VxJasonxV^Work> sad
[17:08:57] <BartVB> how many posts are there?
[17:09:04] <BartVB> approx
[17:09:04] <VxJasonxV^Work> write a converter for UNB -> phpBB3 once it goes gold. Then merge ahoy! :D
[17:09:11] <VxJasonxV^Work> assuming nobody else has/will
[17:09:22] <ALok-work> you think its hard to have a single login for both forum and wiki?
[17:09:24] <Kev> R.H: that's incredibly generous of you; be sure to send me details under which you'd like to be acknowledged and I'll make sure you get a mention somewhere
[17:09:40] <Kev> BartVB: in the total forum? or that page?
[17:09:46] <remko> R.H: yeah, you rock. What version of Psi are you running now ?
[17:09:52] <BartVB> total number of posts on the forum
[17:09:53] <Kev> there were about 8 posts on that page I think
[17:10:29] <Kev> remko: 0.10
[17:10:45] <remko> R.H: well, you should be in for a treat then :-)
[17:11:24] <ALok-work> i think the "busywidget" is ugly
[17:12:03] <remko> ALok: improve it then !
[17:12:14] <R.H> Kev: It doesn't matter about acknowledgement, i don't like being noticed. Being a mysterious shadowy figure is good enough for me. ^_^
[17:12:14] <remko> alok: we accept patches
[17:12:24] <ALok-work> hehe
[17:12:33] <ALok-work> i am not good with GUI stuff
[17:12:38] <Kev> R.H: I'd feel better about it, unless you really don't want an acknowledgement
[17:12:39] <ALok-work> i have no idea where to start
[17:13:09] <remko> alok: TrollTech has some good tutorials
[17:13:19] <R.H> Nah, i don't want to be acknowledged.
[17:13:20] <albert> !fs 573
[17:13:33] <Kev> R.H: ok, thank you very much
[17:13:33] <psidekick> albert: FS#573: PSI should use the default ~/Library/Application Support/ path to store prefs:
http://flyspray.psi-im.org/task/573
[17:14:19] <Kev> R.H: can I post to my blog about it and leave you as 'an anonymous shadowy figure'? :)
[17:15:20] TobiasFar joins the room
[17:16:16] <R.H> Just had an email from Crucial about my CC being declined (i shouldn't have ordered that router). I made a payment on Friday, so the money should be hitting my account at the end of today. I'll run the order through again tomorrow and post back here then.
[17:16:36] <Kev> thanks very much :)
[17:17:06] <R.H> You can call me "an anonymous shadowy figure" on your blog if you want.
[17:17:41] <R.H> Sorry about this delay. Damn my lack of financial planning. :)
[17:18:19] <Kev> :)
[17:18:25] <iono> :o)
[17:21:13] <BartVB> less than 40.000 posts on the forums. How can MySQL get hammered with that?
[17:21:19] <iono> Yes, but only on the third wednesday of every month.
[17:21:28] <Kev> BartVB: if you do 50 lookups for an 8 post thread
[17:21:34] <Kev> 50 independent queries
[17:21:40] <Kev> when it should just be 1
[17:21:43] <Kev> that would do it
[17:21:45] <BartVB> If needed I can take a quick look. SHouldn't be hard to at least get it working at a reasonable speed
[17:21:50] <BartVB> :)
[17:21:51] <R.H> I just checked Crucial's site and the reason i was rejected was i put the wrong expiration date in! I've corrected it, so perhaps i do have money in the account.
[17:21:54] <BartVB> but then still..
[17:21:56] <R.H> I feel so stupid!
[17:21:59] <Kev> R.H: hehe :)
[17:22:00] maxi joins the room
[17:22:21] <BartVB> MySQL should have everything in memory, most of the queries can be cached, not a lot of concurrent users (I think?)
[17:22:38] <Kev> the server itself is quite slow, too
[17:22:47] <BartVB> ah :)
[17:22:57] <BartVB> I can provide some hosting?
[17:23:03] <BartVB> same box that's running area51.phpbb.com
[17:23:05] <Kev> the mysql server is running in a virtual machine
[17:23:05] <ALok-work> you know what i want to do.
[17:23:17] <Kev> which doesn't aid speed :)
[17:23:18] <ALok-work> I want the busy widget to be like a gif or something
[17:23:23] <BartVB> depends on the vserver :)
[17:23:33] <Kev> this isn't xen ;)
[17:23:50] <BartVB> using vserver-linux.org myself and it's very zippy
[17:24:00] <BartVB> close to no performance difference with native speed
[17:24:07] <BartVB> (that I've noticed anyway :D)
[17:24:58] <BartVB> what kind of hardware is that box?
[17:25:32] <Kev> I don't know, you'd have to ask hal, it's his colo box
[17:26:01] <BartVB> oki
[17:28:16] <R.H> OK, the RAM order has been elevated to "In Progress" so it looks like you will get it tomorrow after all Kev. I'll look forward to some shiny dev Psi goodness in the not too distant future. :-D
[17:28:30] <Kev> that's great, thanks
[17:28:43] <Kev> I'll look at setting that up tomorrow night then
[17:28:46] <albert> How are the tax rules in UK?
[17:28:48] <Kev> and giving remko a login to the box
[17:28:58] <Kev> albert: in what sense?
[17:29:23] <Kev> and removing all the stuff on the box that's covered by NDA or potentially embarrasing :)
[17:29:33] <albert> In USA I think you can give to charity and educational institutions.
[17:29:43] <ALok-work> wjats the ram for anyways?
[17:29:51] <remko> R.H: i'll make it my top priority when the RAM is installed
[17:30:07] <Kev> ALok-work: to replace the corrupt ram in my mac mini so we can set up nightly builds
[17:30:16] <ALok-work> o?
[17:30:22] <ALok-work> nightly for?
[17:30:25] <ALok-work> mac?
[17:30:30] <remko> alok: ...
[17:30:31] <ALok-work> or for all syste,s?
[17:30:31] <Kev> ALok: yes
[17:30:32] <remko> alok: think man
[17:30:38] <ALok-work> it could be a cross build
[17:30:44] マチェック leaves the room
[17:30:45] <ALok-work> you never know...
[17:30:52] <ALok-work> i know some setups that do cross builds
[17:31:02] <ALok-work> and you could just want the mac mini so it can be quiet...
[17:32:43] <remko> it could make sense, since Macs are far superior, we could use it for about anything
[17:32:55] <ALok-work> heh
[17:33:28] <ALok-work> who does the "Norman" builds?
[17:33:34] <remko> think man !
[17:33:35] <remko> Norman
[17:33:39] <R.H> The Mac mini would make for a nice little home server. I've thought about getting one for that purpose, but it's a bit too expensive for what i'd use it for.
[17:33:48] <ALok-work> wondering if norman is someone here...
[17:33:53] <Kev> R.H: the new intel ones are a much better buy
[17:33:59] <remko> R.H: yeah, i'm also a bit divided about that
[17:34:06] <Kev> since you could effectively use them as a desktop
[17:34:14] <Kev> the old g4 ones were rather limited, speedwise
[17:34:21] <ALok-work> R.H: mini itx?
[17:34:22] <remko> R.H: an intel-based mac would be handy to do some debugging, because we are getting some bug reports.
[17:34:43] <remko> R.H: and the specs of the mac mini intel are quite good, although they are more expensive than the previous minis
[17:34:53] <R.H> remko: If i win this week's Euro-lottery i'll buy you one. ^_^
[17:34:54] <Kev> yeah, someone buy remko an intel mac mini ;)
[17:35:02] <ALok-work> mac mini is a square laptop without a screen
[17:35:05] <ALok-work> and keyboard
[17:35:16] <Kev> or mouse :)
[17:35:23] <ALok-work> yea that too
[17:35:23] <remko> R.H: you know what, i'll hold you on that !
[17:35:50] <R.H> If i'm the only winner i'll buy you a dozen!
[17:36:03] <remko> R.H: macrumors says that the life cycle of the mac mini is nearly ending. might be worth while waiting a bit
[17:36:10] <remko> R.H: although who cares if you win the lottery
[17:36:12] <ALok-work> life cycle?
[17:36:15] <ALok-work> new modle?
[17:36:18] <remko> release cycle
[17:36:31] <remko> upgrade yes
[17:37:03] <remko> R.H: i would buy an iMac, if it were'nt for the fact that i have a 23" HD Cinema display
[17:37:13] <remko> R.H: which i use about 2 hours a day for watching tv :\
[17:37:23] <Kev> they can drive those too can't they? )
[17:37:28] <remko> i should probably be shot
[17:37:38] <remko> Kev: yeah, but it's a bit of waste of money, right , two screens ?
[17:37:51] <Kev> I love having dual-head
[17:37:59] <remko> Kev: it's really not handy with a 23"
[17:38:07] <Kev> I'd find a use, trust me
[17:38:20] <remko> Kev: you underestimate the area of 23", trust me
[17:38:21] <R.H> I don't plan on buying one myself. Too expensive for a server (and i wouldn't make full use of it anyway) and i prefer to use a notebook for my main system.
[17:38:22] <IceRAM> hmm.. strange.. I have 3 people in this chatroom using the same (green) color
[17:38:26] halr9000 joins the room
[17:38:40] <ALok-work> i have my nick colors off
[17:38:43] <ALok-work> everyone is black
[17:38:44] <remko> Kev: anyway, you usually use dual head because your first head is too small. However, all the action always happens on the first one
[17:38:56] <ALok-work> i'd like to have 3 arms too
[17:38:57] <remko> Kev: the menus, the auto-popups, ...
[17:39:04] <remko> Kev: that's pretty annoying
[17:39:39] <IceRAM> hmm.. are you talking about Psi on multiple screens?
[17:39:58] <R.H> The new Macbooks can drive a 23" external monitor (and don't have to mirror, like the iBook). I think that'll be my next machine, but i'll try to hold off until Leopard and iLife/iWork '07 are out. If i can. ^_^
[17:44:44] <Kev> well
[17:44:53] <Kev> I'd not get a macbook yet for a while anyway
[17:45:01] <Kev> the hardware isn't quite perfect I think
[17:45:22] <remko> the new macbooks will be better :)
[17:47:07] <R.H> Yeah, my head says "wait", but my eyes say "BUY THE SHINY NOW!". Think i can resist for another couple of months at least.
[17:47:32] <Kev> I have literally no money, so my eyes saying "buy the shiny" has no effect
[17:47:38] <R.H> Well, i'm off. I'll check back in a few days for those Mac nightlies. Bye.
[17:47:43] R.H leaves the room
[17:47:46] <Kev> bye rh. thanks
[17:57:08] Wille leaves the room
[17:58:00] <Kev> does anyone know the answer to this?
[17:58:15] <Kev> 145602 <@|Kev|> someone here will know
145621 <@|Kev|> what's that cunning software that allows other machines to act
like another head of the current machine?
145641 <@|Kev|> so you have 1 kb/mouse in total, and a monitor for every box
145650 <@|Kev|> and you move the cursor between the boxes?
[17:59:07] <albert> x2x?
[17:59:11] <remko> x2x ?
[17:59:37] <remko> damn laggy connection :)
[17:59:44] <Kev> http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/
[18:00:21] <remko> tsk
[18:00:26] <remko> you knew the answer all along ;-)
[18:00:30] <Kev> heh
[18:00:40] <Kev> or maybe the irc channel I pasted from knew ;)
[18:02:19] <halr9000> eh what?
[18:04:08] Kev pats hal gently
[18:04:16] <Kev> iono: give hal a pat
[18:04:22] iono gives hal a pat
[18:07:40] <ALok-work> i think the aopen minipc might be more expensive than the macmini...
[18:07:50] <ALok-work> its crazy
[18:09:38] <ALok-work> actally...
[18:09:56] <Kev> the minis are not expensive, I think
[18:10:06] <ALok-work> they should not...
[18:10:12] <ALok-work> but i am not sure where to look for them
[18:10:14] <remko> there have been several comparisons that they were not expensive 'if you think about it'
[18:10:19] <ALok-work> like no one sells them
[18:10:24] <remko> sells what ?
[18:10:24] ALok leaves the room
[18:10:30] ALok joins the room
[18:10:31] ALok leaves the room
[18:10:31] <ALok-work> i left the room...
[18:10:32] <Kev> you're a student aren't you?
[18:10:37] <ALok-work> yea i am a student...
[18:10:39] <Kev> go to the apple store online
[18:10:44] <Kev> even get student discont
[18:10:47] <Kev> *discount
[18:10:48] <albert> Anyone know a site that givesa 302 redirect to another domain?
[18:10:49] <ALok-work> i know...
[18:10:50] <remko> i think he means no one sells aopens
[18:10:52] <ALok-work> its like 5%
[18:10:55] <ALok-work> its nothing
[18:10:56] <Kev> heh
[18:10:59] <Kev> it's 15% for me :)
[18:11:04] <remko> because you can get Mac Minis about anywhere :)
[18:11:05] <Kev> albert: no, sorry
[18:11:17] <ALok-work> http://minipc.aopen.com/Global/
[18:11:27] <remko> albert: http://spike.ulyssis.org ?
[18:11:37] <remko> i'm not sure if that's a 302
[18:12:09] <remko> it is
[18:12:12] <remko> hurray :)
[18:12:17] <albert> Thanks!
[18:12:18] ALok joins the room
[18:12:22] <ALok-work> http://minipc.aopen.com/Global/
[18:12:26] <ALok-work> oops
[18:12:33] <iono> "great"
[18:12:35] <ALok-work> http://www.minipc4less.com/minipc1.html
[18:14:56] <ALok-work> well whatever
[18:15:22] <ALok-work> i think i'll just forget about it and just buy more ram for my machine
[18:17:06] <VxJasonxV^Work> methinks I might install psi-daisy...
[18:18:26] <remko> VxJasonxV: why might i ask ?
[18:19:01] <VxJasonxV^Work> if it's anything like 0.9.3 with extras on gentoo, the extras are cool :)
[18:19:13] <remko> VxJasonxV: what extras are you thinking of ?
[18:19:13] <VxJasonxV^Work> I wish 0.10 with extras worked :(
[18:19:21] <VxJasonxV^Work> status line in roster
[18:19:25] <VxJasonxV^Work> and uhhh
[18:19:32] <VxJasonxV^Work> something else I'm forgetting
[18:19:35] <remko> VxJasonxV: :)
[18:19:42] <remko> VxJasonxV: well, go ahead then
[18:20:15] <VxJasonxV^Work> aren't you the maintainer, remko?
[18:20:28] <remko> of course not
[18:20:37] <VxJasonxV^Work> mmm
[18:20:39] <remko> i don't understand why people run forked psi's ;)
[18:20:41] <remko> michalj is
[18:20:44] <VxJasonxV^Work> ah
[18:20:57] <remko> i don't know what patches he included, but Remote Controlling and MUC might not be in it
[18:21:34] <VxJasonxV^Work> I wouldn't expect those in ,10
[18:25:26] TobiasFar leaves the room
[18:25:45] <albert> In message dialogs my own name is red and the other side is blue. Where do I configure those colours?
[18:28:40] <Nyco> "Chat with the Psi devs on psi@conference.jabber.ru on Wednesday 21st June 2006 at 19:00 GMT", what does it mean if I'm living in Paris? I think I'm GMT+1, but we're two hours away from the sun, does this mean, we have to connect to the chatroom à 21:00 local time?
[18:29:28] <Kev> 9pm paris
[18:29:34] <Kev> 8pm london
[18:30:03] <Nyco> ok, thx
[18:30:36] <remko> albert: we're looking into it
[18:31:08] <Nyco> but... I don't think you will have a lot a french guys here: this is the first summer day, so we have the "music party" all over France... bands playing in all the streets of all the cities until 2 in the morning
[18:31:22] <remko> Nyco: better luck next time
[18:31:23] <remko> :)
[18:31:30] <iono> =D
[18:33:22] <remko> albert: we'll handle it tomorrow
[18:33:25] <remko> albert: or so
[18:34:08] <Kev> this synergy thing is prettyhandy
[18:34:38] <LRN> Nyco, why this day is the first summer day? I mean, summer begins 00:00 01 Jun...
[18:35:03] <Kev> it's the longest day of the year
[18:35:07] <Kev> iirc
[18:35:11] <Kev> 21st Jine
[18:35:13] <Kev> *June
[18:35:54] <LRN> A! Summer...er....how's...this should be something like... "Summer sunstaying"
[18:36:07] LRN launches Lingvo
[18:36:09] <remko> huh ?
[18:36:15] <remko> since when does summer start on June 1st ?
[18:36:28] <Nyco> synergy2 rocks! While at work, people were wondering how I could do the trick between a Windows and a Linux workstation... I answered : "it's the magic of Linux and Free Sofwtare..." ;-)
[18:36:58] <LRN> I alway thought summer is Jun, Jul, Aug.
[18:37:21] <LRN> Spring is Mar,Apr,May and so on
[18:37:22] <remko> apparently, it's a local thing
[18:37:34] <remko> here, summer starts June 21st
[18:38:02] <LRN> solstice!
[18:38:08] <LRN> It is called solstice.
[18:38:20] <LRN> LOL me :)
[18:40:28] <albert> Ehm, doesn't summer begin to end at solstice? ;-)
[18:40:37] <Nyco> (Opera 9 is out: http://slashdot.org/articles/06/06/20/1223233.shtml)
[18:40:55] <remko> albert: according to wikipedia, not everywhere
[18:42:28] <remko> albert: when is Midsommar ?
[18:44:32] TobiasFar joins the room
[18:47:37] <LRN> Lingvo says midsummer = summer solstice = 24th Jun
[18:53:51] <albert> remko: we always celebrate Midsommar on the friday between 19th and 25th.
[18:55:18] <ALok-work> yea summer does not begin till logestday
[18:55:22] <ALok-work> winter does not begin till shortest day
[18:56:50] <ALok-work> hey anybody know anything about the busywidget?
[18:56:57] <remko> yes
[18:56:59] <ALok-work> i want to make it an icon...
[18:57:23] <ALok-work> just have an iconset for it
[18:57:32] <ALok-work> one for idle
[18:57:36] <ALok-work> and one for active
[18:57:57] <ALok-work> then it can be changed by anybody who wants to make an icon set for it...
[18:58:25] <Kev> the problem here is that it's not a statically defined animation
[18:58:36] <ALok-work> ?
[18:58:38] <Kev> saying that
[18:58:53] <Kev> I have every intention of making it replaceable at some point
[18:59:21] <ALok-work> but like icon stuff is implemented...
[18:59:37] <ALok-work> would it be too hard to make it an icon?
[18:59:44] <ALok-work> i don't know much gui stuff :(
[18:59:47] <remko> probably not
[19:00:01] <remko> i think the busywidget has some extra functionality that no one knows of (that's what i heard)
[19:00:09] <remko> but yeah, we should make it an animation
[19:00:24] <LRN> What is busywidget?
[19:00:31] <remko> LRN: the 'throbber'
[19:00:36] <Kev> o_O
[19:00:37] <iono> ugly i think
[19:00:38] <remko> LRN: the thing that rotates if there's activity
[19:00:47] <Kev> iono: what is remko?
[19:00:49] <ALok-work> vcard and services discovery
[19:00:59] <Kev> meh, silly bot :(
[19:01:00] <LRN> A!
[19:01:31] <ALok-work> its a really cool animation... but it jsut doesn't fit with the rest of the theming
[19:01:36] <LRN> Psi busywidget looks nice :) It's 3d?
[19:01:44] <ALok-work> its not 3d...
[19:01:50] <LRN> I suspected that :-/
[19:02:07] <ALok-work> its just stretched along some thing realted to pi...
[19:02:18] <ALok-work> i dunno i was trying to decipher the code
[19:02:42] <LRN> Why it's need deciphering?
[19:02:49] <remko> because it is complex code
[19:02:59] <remko> this is a hand-drawn and animated throbber
[19:03:30] slubman leaves the room
[19:03:33] <ALok-work> who wrote it?
[19:03:46] <LRN> Well, it's apparently match code. They're always hard to understand
[19:04:09] slubman joins the room
[19:04:33] <LRN> Maybe you should make it real 3D...Simple OpenGL frame with few polygons...
[19:05:37] <ALok-work> no... we should make it an iconset
[19:05:44] <ALok-work> so anybody can just make a new icon set
[19:05:51] <ALok-work> as just images
[19:06:14] <ALok-work> could steal the firefox throbber
[19:06:18] <LRN> It will be hard to achieve.
[19:06:27] <ALok-work> hard to achive?
[19:06:55] <LRN> You see, when it stops, it doesn't stops instantly
[19:07:05] <ALok-work> ?
[19:07:15] <LRN> And when it starts, it doesn't starts instantly too
[19:07:25] <ALok-work> ?
[19:07:37] <remko> LRN: you can just let the animation finish
[19:08:12] <LRN> You should have 3 differend animation sequences for this
[19:08:43] <ALok-work> or we could just not care...
[19:08:57] <ALok-work> and have it abruptly start and stop
[19:09:06] <ALok-work> things always do this...
[19:09:11] <deucalion> re
[19:09:18] <LRN> This isn't that cool
[19:09:18] <deucalion> remko: thanks for the "conditional" :)
[19:10:13] <deucalion> (* Add conditional for pre-1.8 PubSub PEP support.)
[19:10:28] <LRN> Or define one anumation, something like "S...A...B...F". And loop from A to B until it's time to let it finish
[19:10:34] <LRN> anImation
[19:11:35] <ALok-work> LRN: why do you care so much?
[19:11:51] <LRN> Because i like this widget
[19:11:56] <ALok-work> its ugly
[19:11:59] <LRN> It looks cool
[19:12:06] <ALok-work> but still ugly
[19:12:16] <LRN> why?
[19:12:51] <ALok-work> it reminds me of 1995 age graphics
[19:13:21] <ALok-work> whlie the rest of the program is full of "crytal" ness
[19:13:23] <ALok-work> and such like that
[19:14:04] legoscia leaves the room
[19:14:54] <LRN> Soon, all psi developers and psi fans will break into 2 groups : OldWidgetParty and NewWidgetMovement, and The War will begin...
[19:15:10] <ALok-work> sure if you really wanted... you could have 4 animations....
[19:15:16] <LRN> 3
[19:15:18] <ALok-work> 3 animations and one satic
[19:15:41] <ALok-work> off start on stop
[19:15:59] <LRN> Start, loop, stop
[19:16:05] <ALok-work> well, it could be any mixture... because you oculd have an animating idle...
[19:16:09] <LRN> off - it's just 1st frame of "start"
[19:16:19] <remko> deucalion: welcome
[19:16:21] <ALok-work> for extensibility
[19:16:32] <ALok-work> you could have an animation while its idleing..
[19:16:37] <ALok-work> like a slow spining psi logo...
[19:16:55] <remko> alok: no, no animations if unnecessary
[19:16:56] <ALok-work> then it glows and speeds up when its active for example
[19:17:17] <ALok-work> i am saying... as an example for extensibiltiy
[19:17:35] <ALok-work> because for these icon sets right now, i could animation the DnD roster icon
[19:17:37] <ALok-work> right?
[19:18:05] <ALok-work> could make all the roster icon flashing all the time
[19:18:25] <LRN> AFAIK, there's no support for animated roster icons yet
[19:18:35] <remko> that's the first i heard
[19:18:45] <remko> we've had them since before i ever used psi
[19:18:53] <LRN> oh, damn...
[19:19:14] <LRN> I confused them with emoticons :-/
[19:19:15] <Nyco> by the way, you're talking about uglyness... ;-) I think the character counter is ugly, why not use the police defined for chat window?
[19:19:38] <remko> what policy ?
[19:19:42] <remko> and what character counter ? :)
[19:19:48] <ALok-work> police?
[19:19:51] <ALok-work> where is the popo?
[19:19:56] deucalion is against any unnecessary eyecatchers in an IM app... it needs to be functional and quick, not nice and an attentionwhore...
[19:20:16] <Nyco> s/police/font/ sorry
[19:20:19] <VxJasonxV^Work> Adium <3
[19:20:22] <Nyco> police = font in french
[19:20:33] <ALok-work> thats stupid
[19:20:42] <ALok-work> :)
[19:20:52] <Nyco> character counter is under the tab bar, between the Jabber IDs of the contact and yours
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[19:21:07] <LRN> There's much more stupid words in french, trust me, my friend, i know...
[19:21:11] <ALok-work> not many people ahve it enabled...
[19:21:26] <ALok-work> the char counter is disabled by default...
[19:21:35] <Nyco> Alok : yes, but it's different that the rest
[19:21:40] <ALok-work> but yea, that should prbbly be changed
[19:21:53] <ALok-work> that should even be easier to change
[19:22:08] <Nyco> easier than?
[19:22:30] <ALok-work> cahnging the busywidget
[19:22:35] <LRN> than nothing. It's can't be changed.
[19:22:55] <Nyco> why not?
[19:23:37] <ALok-work> QLCDNumber ...
[19:23:40] <ALok-work> that sounds bad
[19:23:53] <Nyco> yes, it's like an LCD!
[19:23:57] <LRN> LCD sounds like LSD
[19:24:16] <ALok-work> um.. mo i mean it sounds like you can't just change the font
[19:25:06] <LRN> There IS font wich looks like LCD numbers. I saw one in custom Miranda build
[19:25:13] <Nyco> ok, so replace ? or throw it away... out in plugin-space? ;-)
[19:25:24] <ALok-work> it jsut displays.. (int)mle->text().length()
[19:25:41] <ALok-work> should like use a QLabel
[19:25:46] <ALok-work> or something..
[19:25:59] <Nyco> ok, is it hard to do?
[19:26:01] <ALok-work> again, i don't know much about guis
[19:27:18] <ALok-work> i should have someone remind me of this later...
[19:27:24] <ALok-work> so i can try this...
[19:27:35] <Nyco> an entry in Flyspray?
[19:27:36] <ALok-work> change QLCDNumber to QLabel
[19:27:55] <LRN> QLaber + http://www.spinwardstars.com/scrfonts/lcd.html
[19:28:27] <ALok-work> LRN: that was um... pointless
[19:28:56] <ALok-work> change ->display() to ->setText
[19:29:18] <ALok-work> it could owrk...
[19:29:26] <ALok-work> i dunno why it was an lcd... remko you know why?
[19:30:19] <remko> i don't even know why there is a character counter
[19:30:24] <remko> i want to delete it from the UI
[19:30:43] <hawke> Kev: can you tell me if there's a patch somewhere to enable sasl, or if http://j2.openaether.org/mediawiki/index.php/Kerberos is incorrect?
[19:30:59] <hawke> remko: I like it...
[19:31:09] <remko> hawke: why ? :)
[19:31:15] <Kev> there was once a patch
[19:31:21] <remko> hawke: there's no SASL in Psi 0.11, that's for sure
[19:31:24] <Kev> but I was told that it was terminally bad
[19:31:33] <Kev> but it will certainly not apply to 0.11
[19:31:36] <Nyco> it won't disturb me if the char-counter disappears... it would simplify the options dialog of one item
[19:31:57] <remko> hawke: there indeed were some patches to make Psi work with XMPP, but those are all obsolete with 0.11 now, we have a different crypto backend
[19:31:58] <hawke> remko: I dunno, I just like having it around.
[19:32:13] <ALok-work> its a novelty thing?
[19:32:15] <hawke> remko: I'd have no problem with the char counter becoming an advanced option though
[19:32:20] <ALok-work> AIM has a char limit
[19:32:29] <hawke> or hidden, or whatever it's best called.
[19:32:31] <remko> alok: why do we have to pay for limits of bad protocols ?
[19:32:37] <ALok-work> IRC has a limit
[19:32:41] <ALok-work> but not a message limit
[19:32:48] <ALok-work> it has a command length limit
[19:32:51] <remko> hawke: yeah, it's already advanced :) it could be a bit more advanced by making it hidden ;)
[19:32:53] <deucalion> ALok-work: then the transport is broken - it should transmit it in more than more message, shouldn't it?
[19:33:07] <ALok-work> i haven't ever used a trasnport
[19:33:08] <remko> alok: why should a jabber client care about limits of other protocols ?
[19:33:12] <ALok-work> i am talkinga bout protocol
[19:33:19] <remko> alok: indeed, it shouldn't care
[19:33:26] <ALok-work> no idea.. i am jsut talking about limits
[19:33:30] <ALok-work> not really about Psi
[19:33:44] <deucalion> psi should be limitless... :P
[19:33:55] <deucalion> ;)
[19:34:25] <deucalion> remko: its handy if one used sms transports... but then again, the transport could/should solve that problem
[19:34:43] <hawke> anybody considered doing an advanced configuration editor interface, similar in concept to mozilla's about:config, for working with the "really advanced"/hidden options?
[19:34:54] <ALok-work> notepad
[19:34:54] <remko> hawke: yup
[19:35:00] <remko> hawke: it's in the makings
[19:35:01] <ALok-work> where are the options anyways?
[19:35:08] <hawke> remko: awesome.
[19:35:21] <ALok-work> is it in %HOME%/PsiData?
[19:35:33] <deucalion> ALok-work: options.xml?
[19:35:38] <remko> hawke: btw, we're going to try and get SASL in by 0.11
[19:35:42] <ALok-work> where is that?
[19:35:45] <hawke> remko: also awesome1
[19:35:46] <ALok-work> o nm
[19:35:47] <hawke> !
[19:35:49] <ALok-work> i am stupid
[19:35:49] <deucalion> in the profile dir
[19:36:23] <ALok-work> i forgot about profiles
[19:36:31] deucalion leaves the room
[19:36:36] <ALok-work> its like mozilla... profiles... but not too many people use them
[19:37:00] <Kev> hawke: also, you should read http://planet,psi-im.org ;)
[19:37:22] <ALok-work> lol bad url
[19:37:41] deucalion joins the room
[19:37:50] <Kev> indeed, endlessly amusing
[19:37:56] <Kev> http://planet.psi-im.org
[19:38:15] <ALok-work> hm.. i fogot to rss it...
[19:39:07] <ALok-work> lunch time...
[19:39:09] <ALok-work> bbl
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[19:39:31] <iono> what a strange person
[19:41:59] <iono> * |Kev| twiddles his thumbs
[19:42:25] <Kev> I jolly well do not iono
[19:42:32] <Kev> why did you say that iono?
[19:42:37] <iono> aliens
[19:42:40] <deucalion> he knows things...
[19:42:43] <Kev> ah, that explains everything
[19:42:53] <Kev> the aliens made you do it iono?
[19:42:58] <iono> death comes to those who wait
[19:46:37] <hawke> Kev: I do read planet.psi-im.org..but the rss feed will help a lot
[19:46:56] <Kev> I was just refering to me saying the other day about the new options system
[19:47:35] <Kev> but as it happens, I didn't describe a new dialog there
[19:47:36] <Kev> sorry
[19:47:44] <Kev> I think I said about it elsewhere
[19:47:47] <hawke> Ahh -- I'd seen that message, but kinda skipped the options thing and read about snarl. :-)
[19:48:10] <Kev> the snarl bit was probably more interesting to most people :)
[19:57:53] <deucalion> <anime-girlish-voice>eeeeeeeeeee, wiiindoooooze</agv>
[19:58:00] <deucalion> ;)
[19:58:06] <iono> -_-
[19:58:23] deucalion is pure debian linux, btw
[20:02:39] <hawke> Wow, Thunderbird's RSS support blows goats. Anyone got another suggestion for a (gnome?) RSS reader?
[20:02:59] <Kev> I just use google reader
[20:03:05] <remko> hawke: i love rss2email
[20:05:01] <Nyco> hawke: Psi, with an rss2jabber bot
[20:05:23] <hawke> Thanks for the suggestions. :-D
[20:11:34] <remko> hawke: http://el-tramo.be/tmp/mailrss.png http://el-tramo.be/tmp/muttrss.png
[20:11:39] <remko> hawke: this is how i read the forums these days :)
[20:11:49] <remko> hawke: using rss feeds, from whichever mail client i can get my hands on
[20:11:53] <hawke> with some png?
[20:12:22] <remko> hawke: nnooo
[20:12:34] <remko> hawke: those are screenshots proving i can read forums from both mutt and Mail.app :)
[20:12:46] <remko> hawke: and i read all my RSS feeds like that
[20:13:15] <remko> hawke: that's what i like about mail2rss, your favourite mail client becomes your RSS reader
[20:13:22] <remko> woops, it's rss2mail of course
[20:13:23] knorg joins the room
[20:13:47] <hawke> remko: but I hate the email interface. :-/
[20:13:56] <hawke> I think the jabber bot will be the way to go.
[20:14:15] knorg leaves the room
[20:15:03] <remko> hawke: fair enough
[20:15:42] <hawke> remko: My mailbox is already cluttered enough with notifications of stuff. :-)
[20:16:24] <remko> hawke: organize organize organize
[20:17:34] <Nyco> notifications should go to a Jabber client
[20:18:11] <Nyco> maybe you'll have one or two french guys after all... ;-) http://nyco.wordpress.com/2006/06/20/chatter-avec-les-developpeurs-de-psi/
[20:21:45] <Nyco> bye all

Room Configuration

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Room Configuration

[20:54:59] Chatroom configuration modified
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[20:56:49] <ALok-work> :)
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[21:16:46] <LRN> ‏testing...
[21:17:23] <hawke> testing what?
[21:17:46] <LRN> I expected text to be Right-To-Left
[21:18:31] <hawke> There's some symbol in front of it here...
[21:18:40] <ALok-work> ‏lol the R-L char...
[21:18:47] <ALok-work> silly unicode
[21:19:07] <ALok-work> ‏hehe‏
[21:19:07] <hawke> ‏ham
[21:19:16] <hawke> ‫ham
[21:19:27] <hawke> ‮ham
[21:19:41] <ALok-work> ‮‫‏hrm... this is odd
[21:19:47] <hawke> RLO is the one you want, I think
[21:19:59] <ALok-work> ‮?
[21:20:02] <LRN> ‮test
[21:20:32] <LRN> Yes, i could write L<-R, but text is displayer left-aligned in chat window
[21:20:40] <LRN> displayed
[21:20:56] <ALok-work> ‮ this is odd erll t eegi
[21:21:10] <ALok-work> its all freaky
[21:21:17] <ALok-work> jumping all over the place
[21:21:19] <hawke> hehe
[21:21:25] <ALok-work> select that line...
[21:21:46] <ALok-work> its odd
[21:21:51] <ALok-work> part of it is from the right
[21:21:53] <ALok-work> part from the left
[21:22:29] <LRN> LOL :)
[21:22:56] <hawke> nice
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[23:31:55] <R.H> Mac mini RAM tracking code: SZ345013988GB http://www.royalmail.com
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[23:33:52] <ALok-work> :)
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[23:34:05] <iono> :)
[23:35:00] <ALok-work> iono うるさい
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ejabberd/mod_muc log