Psi. Official chat for the Psi Jabber client (http://psi-im.org)

Monday, 19 June 2006< ^ >

∞+1 has set the subject to: Psi: Kicks for Communication (http://psi-im.org) | Room language: English | We often sleep, so if you don't get an answer immediately, hang around :)

Room Configuration

GMT+4
[00:00:15] <Kev> I found out what :)
[00:01:41] <ALok> what?
[00:01:49] <Kev> [20:56:48] *** halr9000 is now unaffiliated
[20:56:53] *** halr9000 is now a visitor
[20:56:56] *** halr9000 has been kicked
[00:01:54] <Kev> hal kicked him
[00:02:05] <Kev> he shalln't do it again
[00:02:34] <Kev> albert: I haven't tried to include bMotion directly into psidekick
[00:02:39] <Kev> but I probably shall at some point
[00:02:58] <ALok> bot from scratch?
[00:03:06] <Kev> hmm?
[00:03:07] <ALok> or modified psi?
[00:03:17] <Kev> iono and psidekick are both bots
[00:03:23] <Kev> neither from scratch
[00:07:31] <psidekick> 17 Jun 13:38 - Added StatusEvent. - Added StatusEvent. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060617133819-04f00-3beb0d3d96753969b0fdd56a7a4e831864260968.gz
[00:09:18] <ALok> o Kev did you notice the close-tabbed-chat-window-crashes bug?
[00:09:30] <psidekick> 18 Jun 19:52 - Removing some old options. - Removing some old options. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618195258-04f00-b17a650bfdd47e05cb1311e20717d1862061352e.gz
[00:09:37] <Kev> yeah, someone told me about it the other day
[00:09:42] <Kev> haven't had a chance to look at it yet
[00:10:35] <VxJasonxV> whoa whoa whoa what?
[00:10:40] <VxJasonxV> I did not leave myself logged in at work O_o
[00:10:46] <ALok> LOL
[00:10:49] <ALok> remote control?
[00:11:04] <VxJasonxV> don't have .11
[00:11:13] <IceRAM> ssh?
[00:11:22] <VxJasonxV> Windows
[00:11:23] <IceRAM> janitor unplugging computers?
[00:11:27] <VxJasonxV> :P
[00:11:30] <psidekick> 18 Jun 19:01 - Moving avatars options inside options.xml. - Moving avatars options inside options.xml. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618190100-04f00-66a7903117807d97ddfa22298805369dc949e34f.gz
[00:11:32] <VxJasonxV> it doesn't auto-log in
[00:12:11] <VxJasonxV> ...
[00:12:14] <VxJasonxV> Psi isn't even on at work
[00:12:47] <ALok> you don't have auto logout set up?
[00:12:58] <ALok> idle timers...
[00:13:05] <ALok> i mean i would... if it was at work...
[00:13:08] <VxJasonxV> umm
[00:13:08] <VxJasonxV> ?
[00:13:11] <VxJasonxV> Psi isn't running
[00:13:23] <VxJasonxV> I don't logout, I lock the workstation instead
[00:13:24] <ALok> o...
[00:13:25] <ALok> wait...
[00:13:29] <ALok> you wanted it logged in
[00:13:31] <ALok> not logged out
[00:13:32] <ALok> nm
[00:13:37] <VxJasonxV> It is logged in
[00:13:37] <VxJasonxV> yet
[00:13:40] <VxJasonxV> the program isn't running
[00:13:42] <VxJasonxV> that's my point :P
[00:13:44] <ALok> how?
[00:13:50] <VxJasonxV> ...I'm supposed to know?
[00:13:52] <ALok> not synced?
[00:13:59] <ALok> it will eventually figure it self out...
[00:14:01] <ALok> right?
[00:14:08] <ALok> does jabber have pinging like in irc?
[00:14:38] <Kev> ALok: not in the same way
[00:14:38] <VxJasonxV> dunno
[00:14:50] <VxJasonxV> ALok: it should have figured it out 3 days ago...
[00:14:52] <Kev> VxJasonxV: I don't see your work client in here, was that what you were asking about?
[00:14:53] <VxJasonxV> 2 days, rather
[00:15:05] <VxJasonxV> Kev: I see a VxJasonxV^Work user in the user list
[00:15:06] <Kev> VxJasonxV: send a message to your work client :)
[00:15:10] <VxJasonxV> I tried
[00:15:13] <Kev> I don't
[00:15:23] <ALok> try re logining in
[00:15:23] <VxJasonxV> recipient is not in the conference room
[00:15:25] <VxJasonxV> hmmmmmm
[00:15:29] VxJasonxV leaves the room
[00:15:39] <ALok> psi has some problems updating sometimes
[00:15:47] VxJasonxV joins the room
[00:15:50] <VxJasonxV> better
[00:15:55] <VxJasonxV> looks like it was hella out of sync on this end
[00:16:07] <ALok> i once got booted from a muc...
[00:16:12] <ALok> network hicup...
[00:16:23] <ALok> but it unsynced and i still say lots of people in the room
[00:16:28] <ALok> when no one was there
[00:16:39] <ALok> see*
[00:16:46] <ALok> it was wierd
[00:16:49] <VxJasonxV> yeah, the list was long enough to have to scroll
[00:16:52] Spike411 leaves the room
[00:16:57] <VxJasonxV> I'm missing like 6 or 8 people Psi said were here...
[00:17:04] <ALok> lol
[00:18:27] c00i90wn joins the room
[00:18:30] <c00i90wn> !
[00:18:35] <iono> yikes
[00:18:36] <ALok> ?
[00:18:41] <iono> coffee
[00:18:42] <c00i90wn> oops :P
[00:18:57] <ALok> i don't get it...
[00:20:46] <VxJasonxV> *
[00:20:53] <ALok> &
[00:21:19] <Kev> get what?
[00:21:28] <ALok> o does anybody know why i cant' change the "account heading background" ?
[00:21:42] <ALok> it just ignores the options
[00:21:48] <Kev> is it white?
[00:21:49] <ALok> or option*
[00:21:59] <ALok> no... it just follow the contact list bg
[00:22:07] <Kev> right
[00:22:11] <Kev> that's what I mean :)
[00:22:25] <ALok> what kinda bug is that?
[00:22:28] <Kev> that was an old bug
[00:22:32] <ALok> o?
[00:22:35] <Kev> which I fixed, oddly
[00:22:39] <remko> Kev: but why are both albert and him having this ?
[00:22:39] <ALok> i am using snampshot from 16th
[00:22:42] <ALok> qt 4.1.3
[00:22:53] <Kev> remko: the conditional's still in there
[00:22:56] <remko> Kev: i would have guessed not recompiled from scratch
[00:22:59] halr9000 joins the room
[00:23:02] <remko> Kev: but they recompiled from scratch
[00:23:03] <Kev> that would certainly do it
[00:23:04] <halr9000> o_O
[00:23:15] <Kev> halr9000: vanity kicks are bad :)
[00:23:22] <halr9000> lol
[00:23:24] <Kev> and no, iono won't rejoin
[00:23:28] <halr9000> it was my very first time!
[00:23:44] <Kev> it's Very Bad Form to have auto-rejoin clients/scripts
[00:23:46] <remko> Kev: we should verify that trolltech fixed the bug on windows as wel
[00:23:58] <ALok> well i am on windows
[00:24:05] <Kev> remko: that's also an option (that they didn't)
[00:24:12] <remko> Kev: i'm starting to suspect so
[00:24:23] <ALok> albert: you here?
[00:24:25] <halr9000> what's the bug?
[00:24:32] <halr9000> i'm running albert's build now
[00:24:33] <remko> ALok: try this: ...
[00:24:45] ALok tries ...
[00:25:17] Spike411 joins the room
[00:25:24] <remko> alok: open contactview.cpp, search for both occurrences of QT_VERSION, and remove #if, #else, #endif, and whatever is between #if and #else
[00:25:44] <ALok> um...
[00:25:52] <remko> ALok: so, you will modify contactview.cpp on two places, leaving only xcg.setColor(QColorGroup::WindowText)
[00:26:00] <Kev> that's src/contactview,cpp in psi
[00:26:00] <ALok> wait a sec
[00:26:11] <Kev> if there's any confusion :)
[00:26:45] <ALok> i don't see any #if s in the code
[00:26:56] <ALok> in contactview.cpp
[00:27:09] <ALok> i have snapshotfrom 16th from the website
[00:27:45] <ALok> as in psi-dev-snapshot-2006-05-16.tar.bz2
[00:27:54] <ALok> which is a month old
[00:27:58] <remko> aaaah
[00:28:03] <remko> that explains
[00:28:06] <remko> forget i asked
[00:28:09] <iono> that explains... thexplains
[00:28:11] <Kev> before we fiked it :)
[00:28:21] <ALok> well why are there no snapshots?
[00:28:40] <halr9000> remko: how do you do MUC create fancy stuff
[00:28:47] <remko> muc create fancy stuff ?
[00:28:54] <ALok> mukky stuff?
[00:29:01] <halr9000> Yes
[00:29:41] <remko> halr9000: create a room, and you'll see :D
[00:29:51] <halr9000> just tried it
[00:29:59] <halr9000> nothing seemed new aside from me automatically being mod
[00:30:04] <remko> and then configure the room
[00:30:29] <remko> either use the configure button, or right-click 'Configure'
[00:30:39] <halr9000> ahhhhh i'm in compact mode
[00:30:46] <remko> right click it is
[00:30:48] <halr9000> and the righnt-click target on these things is tiny
[00:31:05] <remko> if you're an admin, you can aim
[00:31:05] <halr9000> neat
[00:32:00] <halr9000> ok cool, i like
[00:32:08] <ALok> darcs is a shell script?
[00:32:18] <halr9000> Kev: the snapshot acct is still there
[00:32:22] <halr9000> you have login probs?
[00:32:29] <remko> alok: no
[00:32:33] <remko> alok: http://darcs.net
[00:32:51] <ALok> i just downloaded from there...
[00:33:06] <ALok> the file "darcs"
[00:33:11] <Kev> halr9000: the snapshots stopped, that was my best bet
[00:33:12] <ALok> begins:#! /bin/bash
[00:33:21] <ALok> its a shell script
[00:33:48] <Kev> halr9000: you've changed the password
[00:33:50] <remko> alok: well, if you don't believe me
[00:34:02] <remko> alok: darcs is a GHC compiled haskell binary
[00:34:18] <ALok> darcs: Bourne-Again shell script text executable
[00:34:26] <albert> I downloaded it earlier, The windows package contained PuTTY, a few readmes and "darcs.exe".
[00:34:40] <remko> alok: ok, then you're probably right
[00:34:44] <ALok> i downloaded it with cygwin
[00:34:56] <ALok> as in: i have cygwin
[00:35:17] <remko> alok: have you considered the possibility that the binary is not called 'darcs' in cygwin, but dacrs_bin or something like that ?
[00:35:27] <remko> alok: and that cygwin creates a placeholder shell script
[00:35:29] <ALok> realdarcs.exe
[00:37:04] <albert> !wiki darcs
[00:37:12] <psidekick> albert: Darcs - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/darcs
[00:37:17] <remko> haha
[00:37:22] <remko> that's a wiki your you
[00:37:23] <albert> Ehm...
[00:37:29] <remko> !darcs remkosucks
[00:37:33] <remko> woops
[00:37:36] <remko> !wiki remkosucks
[00:37:39] <psidekick> remko: Remkosucks - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/remkosucks
[00:37:42] <ALok> lol
[00:37:52] <remko> !wiki Darcs_Instructions
[00:37:53] <psidekick> remko: Darcs Instructions - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/Darcs_Instructions
[00:37:58] <psidekick> 18 Jun 20:10 - Improved stanza errors handling in Iris - Improved stanza errors handling in Iris - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618201049-ca063-39446cf4dfc50d55610c63ba26c560016e769b03.gz
[00:38:19] <ALok> !jep 183
[00:38:20] <psidekick> ALok: JEP-0183: Jingle Telepathy Transport:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0183.html
[00:38:26] <ALok> <.<
[00:38:27] <ALok> >.>
[00:38:43] albert leaves the room
[00:38:57] albert joins the room
[00:39:29] <albert> Much better error messages now! Thanks!
[00:40:17] <remko> thank マチェック
[00:40:24] <ALok> ?
[00:41:06] ALok is now known as 間違い
[00:41:07] 間違い is now known as ALok
[00:41:13] <ALok> hrm...
[00:41:16] <ALok> that was odd
[00:41:25] <ALok> can i not change my nick?
[00:41:33] <remko> [22:41:12] *** ALok is now known as 間違い
[22:41:12] *** 間違い is now known as ALok
[00:41:37] <remko> it seems that you can
[00:41:38] <Kev> you just did
[00:41:41] <ALok> but it changed back...
[00:41:43] <iono> you just did ... more like dou just yid, am i rite?
[00:41:49] ALok is now known as 間違い
[00:41:49] 間違い is now known as ALok
[00:41:55] <ALok> ?
[00:41:58] <ALok> and again?
[00:42:04] <remko> yes, you can stop now
[00:42:07] Kev is now known as tempKev
[00:42:09] <ALok> i did not do it that time
[00:42:10] <tempKev> works here
[00:42:13] tempKev is now known as Kev
[00:42:22] <ALok> :(
[00:42:53] VxJasonxV is now known as 桜
[00:43:16] <桜> Hmmm. Why is マチェック at the top of the list but I'm at the bottom? :(
[00:43:27] <ALok> i see him at the bottom
[00:43:29] <ALok> and you at the top
[00:43:32] <Kev> justice :)
[00:43:33] <桜> ironic
[00:43:45] <ALok> his starts with katakana
[00:43:51] <ALok> you'rs start with kanji
[00:43:58] <remko> vxjason: you are at the top for me
[00:44:00] <ALok> might have to do with where it is in the unicode
[00:45:03] <桜> hiragana, ALok :)
[00:45:03] <ALok> is there gonna be tabbed mucs?
[00:45:09] <halr9000> psi's taking 100% cpu for mw all of a sudden
[00:45:09] <ALok> its katakana...
[00:45:17] <ALok> not hiragana...
[00:45:22] <ALok> i think
[00:45:35] <桜> if I'm kata, he's hira
[00:45:39] <桜> neither of us arekanji
[00:45:39] <ALok> there are three systems in japanese,
[00:45:46] <ALok> yours is kanji
[00:45:50] <桜> D=
[00:45:50] <ALok> his is katakana
[00:45:53] <桜> whaaaaaa
[00:46:00] <桜> I'm in a hiragana input method...
[00:46:02] <ALok> and hirgana is not seen here
[00:46:14] <remko> hal: that is a well known Qt bug
[00:46:15] <ALok> all three are used at once in japanese
[00:46:16] <Kev> halr9000: you're using an unpatched Qt4.1.3 and have an event notifier
[00:46:22] <Kev> Qt413's bugged
[00:46:24] 桜 doesn't really know much japanese, so perhaps I shouldn't be debating
[00:46:28] <halr9000> ew
[00:46:29] 桜 is now known as VxJasonxV
[00:46:30] <ALok> :)
[00:46:32] <VxJasonxV> enough of that
[00:46:52] ALok is crazy anime otaku
[00:46:53] ALok is now known as 間違い
[00:46:53] 間違い is now known as ALok
[00:47:00] <ALok> and something is going crazy here
[00:47:00] <Spike411> VxJasonxV: hiragana input mode, but when you hit spacebar, it's coverted to kanji
[00:47:01] <halr9000> ok queue's gone and psi's still spiking
[00:47:08] <ALok> brb
[00:47:10] ALok leaves the room
[00:47:10] ALok joins the room
[00:47:16] <halr9000> Kev: should that fix it or do i just need to restart psi
[00:47:35] [ALok] joins the room
[00:47:40] <Kev> did you actually delete the queue toolbar?
[00:47:41] <[ALok]> something died
[00:47:48] <VxJasonxV> Spike411: oh. That's good to know...
[00:47:59] c00i90wn leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[00:48:02] c00i90wn joins the room
[00:48:49] <[ALok]> building is so boring...
[00:50:48] legoscia joins the room
[00:51:55] <VxJasonxV> no it's not
[00:52:18] <[ALok]> yay i can watch all thos 3000 char commands
[00:52:25] <VxJasonxV> you never learn about things like libpr0n if ou don't watch build processes
[00:52:34] <[ALok]> lol
[00:52:50] <VxJasonxV> http://www.libpr0n.com/
[00:52:51] <[ALok]> i like reading the #warning s
[00:52:54] <VxJasonxV> sfw
[00:53:13] <[ALok]> like, tabdlg.cpp:64:2: warning: #warning "tabby missingness"
[00:53:19] <VxJasonxV> heh
[00:53:27] <iono> ;)
[00:53:36] <[ALok]> iono: shutup
[00:54:10] <Kev> that's not very nice
[00:54:16] <[ALok]> lol
[00:54:30] <[ALok]> it freaks me out
[00:54:44] <halr9000> Kev: no i dint delete the queue toolbar, should I?
[00:54:54] <Kev> halr9000: it's one of two known fixes
[00:54:58] <Kev> the other is to patch Qt
[00:55:01] <halr9000> iono: don't mind them
[00:55:06] <Kev> [ALok]: I like him
[00:55:19] <[ALok]> has anyone ever thought of making a "portable psi"
[00:55:31] <halr9000> fixed it just like that...
[00:55:40] <[ALok]> just changing the config dir to like "./config/"
[00:55:40] <halr9000> yes
[00:55:44] <halr9000> there's forum topics on that al
[00:55:48] <halr9000> darn
[00:55:51] <[ALok]> lol
[00:55:52] <halr9000> [ALok]:
[00:55:56] <[ALok]> um
[00:55:57] <[ALok]> yea...
[00:56:02] <halr9000> you know what i mean
[00:56:10] <[ALok]> i dunno what happened to ALok
[00:56:14] <halr9000> al<tab>
[00:56:17] <[ALok]> its still here...
[00:56:20] <[ALok]> but its not me
[00:56:27] <halr9000> oh. odd
[00:56:48] <[ALok]> kick it :)
[00:57:02] <[ALok]> because it was me, till i parted for about 5 seconds
[00:57:05] <[ALok]> then i could not rejoin
[00:57:57] <[ALok]> wait a sec
[00:57:59] [ALok] leaves the room: Disconnected
[00:57:59] ALok leaves the room
[00:58:05] [ALok] joins the room
[00:58:09] [ALok] leaves the room
[00:58:15] ALok joins the room
[00:58:20] <ALok> its gone!
[00:58:24] <ALok> wait...
[00:58:27] ALok leaves the room
[00:58:32] ALok joins the room
[00:58:42] <ALok> that was off
[00:58:43] <ALok> odd*
[00:58:53] <ALok> o well
[00:59:13] <ALok> that was wierd
[01:01:38] Spike411 leaves the room
[01:02:22] <IceRAM> /part
[01:02:35] <ALok> /quit
[01:02:35] <IceRAM> /join blabla@conference.jabber.ru
[01:02:39] <ALok> hehe
[01:03:02] <ALok> /mode psi@conference.jabber.ru +o ALok
[01:03:05] <ALok> :0
[01:03:18] <ALok> i gues not
[01:03:38] <IceRAM> hmm...
[01:03:46] <IceRAM> maybe +b is implemented...
[01:03:47] <IceRAM> :D
[01:03:52] <ALok> heh
[01:03:53] <iono> =D
[01:04:42] <ALok> i have this odd problem
[01:04:50] <ALok> that button that says: show self contact
[01:05:00] <ALok> it works on one account
[01:05:03] <ALok> but not the other
[01:05:12] <ALok> the other being a google talk account
[01:05:22] <remko> because you are logged in with two accounts there
[01:05:26] BartVB thinks that Qunu is cool :)
[01:05:26] <remko> from two places
[01:05:30] <ALok> o
[01:05:34] <ALok> lol BartVB
[01:05:39] <BartVB> and the Psi room invite dialog could use some usability touchups :D
[01:05:45] <ALok> talk about it
[01:05:58] <BartVB> double click on an attachement? Jikes :)
[01:06:07] <remko> BartVB: right-click->join
[01:06:14] <BartVB> or double click
[01:06:15] <BartVB> I know :)
[01:06:20] <BartVB> but it's hardly intuitive :D
[01:06:28] <remko> it is
[01:06:34] <remko> but it works :)
[01:06:35] ALok invites BartVB to alpha@muc.alpha.qunu.com
[01:06:35] <BartVB> it's very developer centric :)
[01:06:42] <remko> it's not actually
[01:06:46] <IceRAM> BartVB: I know you would actually want to say "I accept the invitation"
[01:06:58] <IceRAM> and the dialog to close and join MUC
[01:07:03] <BartVB> indeed
[01:07:05] <IceRAM> say = speak
[01:07:12] <remko> :)
[01:07:19] <iono> ^_^
[01:07:19] <BartVB> if it's not developer centric then I guess it's developer masochism :D
[01:07:24] <ALok> voice activation huh?
[01:07:38] <remko> BartVB: it's just easier to do it this way at this point ;)
[01:07:53] <BartVB> that's what I said :D
[01:07:56] <BartVB> developer centric :P
[01:08:07] <ALok> hey is this an error?
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
mingw32-make[2]: *** [debug\psi.exe] Error 1
mingw32-make[2]: Leaving directory `D:/psi-dev-2006-06-18/psi/src'
mingw32-make[1]: *** [debug] Error 2
mingw32-make[1]: Leaving directory `D:/psi-dev-2006-06-18/psi/src'
mingw32-make: *** [sub-src-make_default] Error 2
[01:08:08] BartVB wants muc tabs :)
[01:08:08] <IceRAM> I'm quite curious to see how many types of things can be attached to a message
[01:08:15] BartVB sounds like a whining baby :D
[01:08:27] <remko> ALok: yes, but we can't say anything because you did not paste what was before that
[01:08:31] <psidekick> 18 Jun 13:33 - Add an option to automatically delete unlisted contacts. - Add an option to automatically delete unlisted contacts. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618133351-04f00-e3232fa42e02e396cd11cadf3d468d125f837946.gz
[01:08:41] <ALok> g++ -mthreads -Wl,-enable-stdcall-fixup -Wl,-enable-auto-import -Wl,-enable-runtime-pseudo-reloc -Wl,-subsystem,windows -o "debug\psi.exe" object_script.psi.Debug -L"c:\Qt\4.1.3\lib" -lmingw32 -lqtma
ind _obj\psi_win32.o -lWSock32 -lUser32 -lShell32 -lGdi32 -lAdvAPI32 ./tools/zip/minizip/win32/libz.a -LD:/qca-2.0-beta2/lib -lqca2 -lQt3Supportd4 -lQtXmld4 -lQtGuid4 -lQtNetworkd4 -lQtCored4
C:\MinGW\bin\..\lib\gcc\mingw32\3.4.2\..\..\..\..\mingw32\bin\ld.exe: cannot find -lqtmaind
[01:08:56] <remko> ALok: i told you to remove CONFIG += debug from src.pro ;)
[01:09:02] <ALok> um...
[01:09:04] <ALok> o
[01:09:05] <remko> ALok: then make clean and make
[01:09:20] <ALok> i just used darcs
[01:09:25] <ALok> and got a new copy...
[01:09:28] <ALok> must have forgot
[01:09:31] <remko> indeed
[01:09:37] <remko> make clean and make
[01:09:55] <BartVB> sdfsdf
[01:10:24] <BartVB> sorry
[01:10:31] <psidekick> 18 Jun 12:03 - Do not toggle 'Show agents' when receiving an agent event. - Do not toggle 'Show agents' when receiving an agent event. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618120356-04f00-7978e9d65ea29bd73b18c632b17d8ef54a553070.gz
[01:10:36] <BartVB> focus on the wrong window :)
[01:17:01] <ALok> hey remko why is that config debug line in there anyways?
[01:17:12] <ALok> if it does not compile with it...
[01:18:17] <albert> It does compile with it if you have Qt and QCA compiled in debug mode.
[01:18:26] <ALok> o sigh
[01:18:49] <ALok> and the instructions don't seem to mention removing the debugline
[01:19:38] <albert> They do if you read doc/build-win.txt
[01:19:57] <ALok> but... i am not reading that
[01:20:15] <ALok> i was reading the wiki
[01:20:28] <ALok> should really update the wiki
[01:20:44] <ALok> brb
[01:28:53] <IceRAM> !jep 86
[01:28:56] <psidekick> IceRAM: JEP-0086: Error Condition Mappings:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0086.html
[01:28:58] <Kev> nightlies should be fixed
[01:33:11] <fLegmatik> in psi-20060518 sources, that ALok used today, were a popup-steals-focus and, probably, other already fixed bugs. Devs, why do you stopped to publish new snapshots? i haven't access to darcs from university computer, where nobody counts the traffic.
[01:34:07] <Kev> what was the last thing I said?
[01:34:23] <fLegmatik> O, thanks.
[01:35:17] <fLegmatik> They will in http://psi-im.org/files/snapshot/ as usual?
[01:35:28] <Kev> should be
[01:35:36] <Kev> as of tomorrow morning there should be a new one there
[01:36:31] <remko> ALok: windows is not the only operating system
[01:36:44] <remko> ALok: i prefer compiling using debug by default, such that we have useful error messages
[01:37:03] <remko> alok: it works out of the box on linux and mac os x. Just Windows doesn't have Qt debug libraries by default.
[01:38:03] φhycon leaves the room
[01:38:54] <psidekick> 18 Jun 21:21 - Better comments for the protocol-selector option. - Better comments for the protocol-selector option. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618212131-04f00-db95ab4c1c121e337003093511f1f653123cb571.gz
[01:39:29] <ALok> :(
[01:41:22] ALok leaves the room
[01:41:28] ALok joins the room
[01:41:33] ALok leaves the room
[01:41:47] ALok joins the room
[01:42:14] <ALok> nice...
[01:42:40] BartVB leaves the room: Computer went to sleep
[01:43:21] <IceRAM> what's nice?
[01:43:53] <ALok> new build
[01:53:15] TobiasFar leaves the room
[01:55:49] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[01:56:01] <VxJasonxV> this xml console isn't even showing a connecting attempt being made D=
[01:57:35] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[01:57:42] <VxJasonxV> sm and c2s don't have a pid
[01:57:44] <VxJasonxV> that's not right D=
[01:58:13] <IceRAM> you wouldn't like to see SSL negociation, right?
[01:58:18] <VxJasonxV> ?
[01:58:24] <VxJasonxV> SSL isn't enabled...
[01:59:01] remko leaves the room: Logged out
[01:59:23] <IceRAM> hmm..
[01:59:37] <IceRAM> connecting is at the OS network level
[01:59:46] <IceRAM> there's nothing transfered then
[01:59:52] <IceRAM> except for TCP syn/acks
[02:00:23] <IceRAM> these are special transport layer packets
[02:00:38] <IceRAM> for initializing a connection
[02:00:45] <ALok> o yea, i was meaning to ask, why doesn't TLS work?
[02:00:45] <IceRAM> ok, I've gone into too much detail
[02:00:58] <IceRAM> TLS isn't supported by Psi
[02:01:15] <IceRAM> but it is supported by Iris, the XMPP backend used by Psi
[02:02:02] <IceRAM> http://psi-im.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_this_SSL.2FTLS_thing_I_keep_hearing_about.3F
[02:02:03] <ALok> i was just wondering the ... "reason"
[02:02:56] <ALok> like were they lazy? or is it hard? or the code currently does not make it possible? or something
[02:03:07] <IceRAM> it's currently being ported
[02:03:11] <IceRAM> as far as I know
[02:03:28] <IceRAM> not really sure though
[02:03:45] <IceRAM> there was a big commit a few days ago
[02:03:48] <IceRAM> with iris updates
[02:05:11] <マチェック> Iris can run in "old" (0.9) and "new" (XMPP 1.0) mode, TLS is only in "new" one. Switching to 1.0 requires some other changes (like reworking account settings)
[02:05:34] <IceRAM> http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi&a=search&s=iris
[02:05:35] <マチェック> Plus Iris is being rewritten by Justin now, so it's better to wait a bit for him to finish
[02:06:19] legoscia leaves the room
[02:09:19] <psidekick> 18 Jun 21:35 - Updated the README. - Updated the README. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060618213508-04f00-d481035022e3080afc8397fb645d86623752533b.gz
[02:09:53] <マチェック> hmm... psidekick doesn't say who made the commit
[02:10:44] <zenek> yeah, iono rules
[02:20:56] <ALok> iono freaks me out
[02:23:46] IceRAM leaves the room
[02:24:05] IceRAM joins the room
[02:24:14] <VxJasonxV> augh
[02:30:21] <VxJasonxV> :|
[02:30:32] <VxJasonxV> jabberd -D doesn't pass along any errors, yet some processes just fail...
[02:33:41] <VxJasonxV> well
[02:33:49] <VxJasonxV> guess I can't run my own jabber server for the time being :/
[02:35:02] <Kev> why jabberd?
[02:35:10] <Kev> that's the worst of the bunch imho
[02:36:12] <VxJasonxV> :P
[02:36:17] <ALok> hey, where is authentication documented?
[02:36:19] <VxJasonxV> because everything else sucks thanks to gentoo at the moment
[02:36:32] <VxJasonxV> hmm
[02:36:37] <VxJasonxV> where in the hell is my htpasswd script D=
[02:36:48] <ALok> gentoo is amazing
[02:36:57] <VxJasonxV> it is
[02:37:00] <VxJasonxV> but it has it's problems
[02:37:07] <ALok> :)
[02:37:13] <iono> ^_^
[02:37:40] VxJasonxV pokes iono
[02:37:46] <ALok> hey guys, i feel like if i don' have focus on the editbox, bu i have focus on the window, when i start typing... it should autofocus to the editbox
[02:37:47] <iono> ow! that was my only foot T_T
[02:39:40] <halr9000> iono: i don't know if you are mentally retarded or a genius
[02:39:55] <ALok> it freaks me out everytime it talks
[02:40:20] <halr9000> It's not an "it", it's a "he"
[02:40:26] <halr9000> And he has feelings you guys.
[02:40:32] <halr9000> right, iono?
[02:40:38] <iono> Moist knickers.
[02:40:42] <halr9000> See?
[02:40:46] <halr9000> er
[02:40:49] <ALok> iono is stupid
[02:40:49] <iono> only with |Kev|
[02:40:58] LRN joins the room
[02:41:06] <ALok> iono: urusei
[02:41:08] LRN leaves the room
[02:41:17] LRN joins the room
[02:41:34] <halr9000> Kev: iono needs enter and exit strings
[02:41:34] <ALok> i don't understand the emoticons...
[02:41:46] <ALok> (y) (n)
[02:41:54] <halr9000> yes, you do
[02:41:58] <ALok> (k) (e) (*)
[02:42:08] <ALok> :> :( ;( :o
[02:42:12] <LRN> >:-]
[02:42:18] <ALok> :$
[02:42:30] <ALok> why is this button here?
[02:42:36] <LRN> I don't know
[02:42:38] <ALok> it does nothing
[02:42:44] <ALok> (%)
[02:42:49] <ALok> (@)
[02:42:51] <LRN> cat
[02:42:52] <ALok> (t)
[02:42:55] <LRN> phone
[02:42:57] <ALok> (d)
[02:43:02] <LRN> Martini
[02:43:05] <ALok> (r)
[02:43:08] <LRN> rainbow :)
[02:43:09] <ALok> (l)
[02:43:16] <LRN> heart. Stop flooding
[02:43:17] <ALok> (})
[02:43:23] <IceRAM> ALok: the focus problem is known
[02:43:23] <マチェック> hug!
[02:43:25] <ALok> (u)
[02:43:40] <マチェック> ALok: these are MSN emoticons, so ask there why they are like this
[02:43:52] <ALok> no... i ask why they are here...
[02:43:58] <ALok> i don't care if they are there
[02:44:06] <マチェック> because many people use msn transport
[02:44:18] <ALok> but this is not an msn transport?
[02:44:21] <ALok> its a muc
[02:44:25] maxi leaves the room
[02:44:34] <LRN> マチェック, how i should pronounce your nick? It's kinda annoying to copy-paste it all the time :)
[02:44:36] <マチェック> ALok: but you cannot assign iconsets per cotnact
[02:44:52] <ALok> bleh, i should find the code and remove the button
[02:44:52] <マチェック> LRN: "machekku"
[02:44:59] <LRN> This will be a good feature request i think
[02:45:04] <LRN> Thanks, machekku
[02:45:13] <マチェック> LRN: just type マ and press tab ;)
[02:45:20] <LRN> I can't :))
[02:45:27] <マチェック> ALok: which button?
[02:45:32] <LRN> smiles button
[02:45:42] <ALok> lol google translate [machietsuku]
[02:45:42] <マチェック> what if you disable emoticons?
[02:45:58] <LRN> Maybe it's some sort os dialect :-/
[02:45:59] <マチェック> ALok: where's the translator?
[02:46:06] <マチェック> anyway, it's quite stupid ;)
[02:46:08] <ALok> http://translate.google.com/translate_t
[02:47:08] <LRN> Why we all are "Participants". I just joined :) Who's "Visitors" then?
[02:47:28] <マチェック> LRN: are you participating in the discussion? :)
[02:47:32] <halr9000> ALok: the emoticons appear based on what you have enabled in Options
[02:47:43] <halr9000> for example I won't see the MSN oens, I might see the Ninja ones
[02:47:52] <LRN> machekku, i got your point
[02:47:53] <halr9000> LRN: good question
[02:48:05] <Kev> LRN: this channel is set to promote you to participant automatically
[02:48:18] <LRN> I knew that! I knew!
[02:48:19] <Kev> if it didn't, and it was moderated, you'd be unable to speak
[02:48:20] <halr9000> Kev: visitor is r/o?
[02:48:21] <マチェック> Kev: is this something like "voice" on irc?
[02:48:29] <マチェック> I see
[02:48:32] <LRN> something like +m mode in IRC
[02:48:37] <halr9000> cool
[02:48:42] <halr9000> no not +m that's mod isn't it?
[02:48:58] <LRN> dunno
[02:49:11] <マチェック> /mode +m <- moderation on, I think
[02:49:43] <LRN> I kemember they used it in Ubisoft HOMAM5 online IRC interview...
[02:49:44] <マチェック> /mode +v halr9000 <- give voice to halr9000 (here, become a "participant")
[02:49:47] <LRN> k=r
[02:50:01] <マチェック> LRN: are you using KDE? :D
[02:50:41] <LRN> No, i use...H-m-m-m...How i shoud name that? Explorer.exe? Yes, the Explorer.Exe, man!
[02:51:13] <マチェック> say Windows Explorer :)
[02:51:31] <マチェック> but kemember sounds very KDE-like :)
[02:51:41] <LRN> :) KDEmemders, eh? :)
[02:52:32] <LRN> Never used KDE though. My only experience with Linux were plain command shell only.
[02:52:59] <マチェック> anyway, machekku (or マチェック) is my Polish name "Maciek" written in Japanese
[02:53:11] <LRN> 8-[ ~ ]
[02:53:37] <マチェック> this way, my first name becomes a worldwide unique nick :)
[02:53:46] <LRN> You're not anime-fan, don't you? :)
[02:54:45] <マチェック> LRN: I'm seriousely thinking that means "yes" and what means "no" when answering a question built like this ;)
[02:54:52] <マチェック> not so big fan
[02:55:13] <マチェック> my PC does not look like full-size anime girl ;)
[02:55:20] <LRN> I think, positive answer would be "yes" :)
[02:55:34] <LRN> I'm happy about your PC.
[02:56:21] <マチェック> LRN: but I think the question tag (the part after comma) should be negated version of the first part, so rather "are you?"
[02:56:31] <マチェック> where are the native speakers? :)
[02:56:42] LRN shakes his head
[02:56:47] <ALok> sometimes this chat loses scroll
[02:56:58] <ALok> it makes it in to the middle of the log
[02:57:03] <LRN> Yes, i noticed that
[02:57:11] <halr9000> ciao guys
[02:57:12] <ALok> it did it again
[02:57:14] halr9000 leaves the room
[02:58:24] <LRN> We're loosing them!
[02:58:34] <ALok> it did it again
[02:59:14] <LRN> ALok, you remind me one guy i know, his name is ALuk :)
[03:00:07] <ALok> ...
[03:01:29] <ALok> i don't understand how authentication works in jabber
[03:02:04] legoscia joins the room
[03:03:06] <LRN> It works as it should. It's based on x509 or OpenPGP, so there's can't be much difference...
[03:03:17] <ALok> um...
[03:03:20] <ALok> them xml
[03:03:24] <ALok> the xml authentication
[03:04:45] <LRN> You could enable XML-console and see it yourself
[03:04:50] <ALok> i did
[03:04:56] <ALok> but i can't find it in the specs
[03:05:04] <ALok> thats the confusing part
[03:05:36] <zenek> ALok: It should be in RFC...
[03:05:37] <LRN> but there IS authentication tags in XML console?
[03:05:43] <ALok> yea
[03:05:55] <ALok> but i can't figure out where it talks about it in the RFC...
[03:06:07] <ALok> someone needs to teach RFC writer vernacular english
[03:06:07] <zenek> http://www.xmpp.org/specs/
[03:06:24] <LRN> AFAIK, TLS/SSL connections should be established by STARTTLS wich is not related to XMPP in any way
[03:06:39] <ALok> but then you have to still login right?
[03:06:43] <ALok> after it gets in?
[03:06:58] <LRN> H-m-m-...yes, you do
[03:07:34] <ALok> i see this:
[03:07:36] <ALok> <iq type="set" to="jabber.org.uk" id="auth_2" >
<query xmlns="jabber:iq:auth">
<username>alok</username>
<digest>f8.....
[03:07:51] <ALok> but no where in the RFC do i see talk of a "digest" tag
[03:07:56] <IceRAM> ALok: let's take it from the begining?
[03:08:05] <IceRAM> what do you think it's missing from the console?
[03:08:08] <LRN> digest is the digest :)
[03:08:28] <ALok> but what i mean is that i can't find this stuff in the specs...
[03:08:38] <ALok> i can be pretty bad at looking this stuff up.,..
[03:08:41] <ALok> but really...
[03:08:44] <ALok> i dunno what to look for
[03:08:50] <IceRAM> what stuff?
[03:08:57] <ALok> the authentication stuff
[03:09:22] <マチェック> ALok: http://www.xmpp.org/specs/rfc3920.html#sasl-client
[03:09:34] <マチェック> or you want that old jabber:iq:auth?
[03:09:51] <マチェック> then it's here: http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0078.html
[03:10:18] <ALok> hmm... yea this is it, why is it a JEP?
[03:10:41] <マチェック> because you should be using SASL, as defined in the RFC
[03:10:54] <ALok> ah... why doesn't Psi do that?
[03:10:55] <マチェック> but still old authentication is widely used
[03:11:17] <マチェック> because Iris is still running in "old" mode
[03:11:24] <ALok> o
[03:11:38] <ALok> how long has iris been around?
[03:11:48] <マチェック> nobody knows ;)
[03:11:52] <Kev> in various forms, a long time
[03:11:53] <IceRAM> hmm.. a long time
[03:12:00] <Kev> I started using Psi in 2002 I think
[03:12:03] <LRN> What is this "Iris" thing?
[03:12:17] <マチェック> iris is XMPP library used by psi
[03:12:17] <Kev> Jabber library
[03:12:25] <LRN> A!
[03:12:31] <ALok> B!
[03:12:33] <LRN> C!
[03:12:35] <IceRAM> hmm...
[03:13:23] <ALok> Ď!
[03:13:26] <ALok> ...
[03:13:28] <ALok> that was odd
[03:13:28] <IceRAM> except for jabberd1.x I can't find any well known jabber server which doens't support SASL
[03:13:31] <iono> !
[03:13:55] <LRN> I hate jabberd 1.x :(
[03:14:01] <ALok> iono!
[03:14:05] <ALok> <.<
[03:14:07] <ALok> >.>
[03:14:08] <iono> -_-
[03:14:12] <iono> A tv.
[03:14:53] <マチェック> IceRAM: I think it supports
[03:15:34] <IceRAM> I've read http://www.jabber.org/software/jabberd1x.shtml
[03:15:40] <IceRAM> don't know when it was last updated
[03:16:24] <マチェック> don't force me to run pandion to check ;)
[03:16:55] <IceRAM> why pandion.. to check what?
[03:17:09] <マチェック> SASL support
[03:17:42] <ALok> you know what bothers me...
[03:17:45] <IceRAM> hmm.. I wonder if Google Talk server(s) support SASL
[03:17:54] <Kev> IceRAM: indeed
[03:18:10] <ALok> i think google talk might
[03:18:49] <IceRAM> ALok: btw, I think many features in Iris required switching to full XMPP 1.0 compliancy... and not many servers are ready for this
[03:19:06] <ALok> fallbacks?
[03:19:10] <Kev> I don't believe that's true IceRAM
[03:19:20] <IceRAM> well, I don't remember exactly
[03:19:29] <IceRAM> I might be wrong
[03:20:10] <IceRAM> the features might not be independant
[03:20:18] <IceRAM> don't know for sure
[03:20:24] <IceRAM> Justin knows better :)
[03:21:53] <マチェック> I'm sure that Iris in 1.0 mode supports non-SASL auth, too. It would be quite strange if it didn't ;)
[03:22:04] <ALok> heh
[03:22:17] <ALok> most things fallback at somepoint...
[03:25:37] <マチェック> IceRAM: jabberd1 which I'm using seems to support SASL
[03:26:10] <マチェック> <stream:features xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"><mechanisms xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><mechanism>PLAIN</mechanism><mechanism>DIGEST-MD5</mechanism></mechanisms></stream:features>
[03:26:22] <ALok> md5 ...
[03:26:34] <マチェック> ?
[03:26:36] <ALok> doesn't the "old" method use sha1
[03:27:03] <IceRAM> well, the jabber.org server page should be updated
[03:27:20] <IceRAM> me is out
[03:27:23] <IceRAM> sleeping time
[03:27:23] <マチェック> IceRAM: but we're on SVN version, so maybe that's the reason
[03:27:34] <IceRAM> oh.. maybe
[03:27:43] <IceRAM> have fun around
[03:28:14] <マチェック> ALok: you should read it as "digest-md5", which is a well defined and widely used authentication method
[03:28:28] <ALok> o?
[03:28:33] <ALok> never heard of it
[03:29:03] <マチェック> http digest authentication works the same way
[03:29:40] zenek leaves the room
[03:34:41] legoscia leaves the room
[03:39:45] <ALok> is there a way to change the colors of these chat windows?
[03:39:54] <ALok> like black background
[03:40:28] <マチェック> check options->appearance
[03:40:32] <マチェック> but I'm not sure
[03:40:39] <LRN> No, there's not i think
[03:41:05] <マチェック> only the choosen ones can change it, then ;)
[03:41:16] <LRN> Indeed
[03:41:29] <マチェック> like me ;)
[03:41:55] ALok leaves the room
[03:42:13] <LRN> Anyone has i new mplayer buid with --enable-gui? I'm giving up compiling this damn thing :-/
[03:42:16] <LRN> i=a
[03:42:30] ALok joins the room
[03:42:46] <Kev> ALok: yes, but not in Psi
[03:42:53] <Kev> it's pulling in your system Qt settings
[03:42:57] <ALok> um...
[03:43:02] <ALok> i lost the last part of the chat
[03:43:05] <ALok> something happened
[03:43:08] <LRN> no
[03:43:08] <Kev> which, on windows, is pulling in your windows settings
[03:43:17] <Kev> yes, you left the room :)
[03:43:56] <LRN> I asked about mplayer, but this is not related to Psi, really :)
[03:44:08] <LRN> So, you didn't missed anything
[03:44:11] <ALok> somethings are not echoing back
[03:44:19] <ALok> my messages ar enot making it in the the room
[03:44:26] <ALok> from tiem to time
[03:44:28] <マチェック> LRN: I guess you could try using mplayer as your sound player in psi ;)
[03:44:44] <ALok> lol mplayer.. that would lag
[03:44:46] <LRN> For what purpose? :-/
[03:45:05] <マチェック> LRN: I'm trying to make your question on topic, and this is how you thank me? ;)
[03:45:18] <LRN> Oh...Yes, thanks of course!
[03:45:25] <ALok> i say you create raw sound files and pipe them in to the /dev/
[03:45:45] <LRN> But this doesn't help much :-/ I still don't have gmplayer
[03:45:54] <ALok> gmplayer sucks
[03:45:58] <ALok> worst thing to exist
[03:46:01] <LRN> I sawit?
[03:46:07] <LRN> damn
[03:46:07] <ALok> mplayer comand line is good
[03:46:09] <LRN> You saw it
[03:46:27] <LRN> Net everyone is good at CLI, you know...
[03:46:34] <ALok> but gmplayer sucks
[03:46:42] <LRN> I want to see it
[03:46:43] <ALok> i have so many problems with it
[03:47:10] <マチェック> not everyone likes to google for yet-another-parameter to do sth ;)
[03:47:14] <LRN> What kind of problems?
[03:47:32] <ALok> it would not switch subtitle and audio tracks easily
[03:47:42] <ALok> seeking in the video became harder
[03:48:06] <LRN> Swithing subtitles and audio tracks is hard everywhere
[03:48:08] <ALok> and the config dialog had slight problems sometimes saving my settings
[03:48:26] <ALok> mplayer -aid 1 -sid 0 <file>
[03:48:38] <LRN> Considering it's experimental pre-alpha unofficial half-supported...
[03:48:45] <LRN> CLI :)
[03:48:45] IceRAM leaves the room
[03:49:03] <ALok> but like in gmplayer... it was so hard to figure out where to select the stuff
[03:49:23] <ALok> CLI is good that if you want something... it can tell you where to get it
[03:49:35] <ALok> in guis there is always a lack of help for telling you where to find things
[03:49:35] <LRN> Maybe because you're not accustomed to GUI players?
[03:49:40] <ALok> and you have to hunt for them
[03:49:44] <ALok> i use mediaplayer classic
[03:49:50] <ALok> i have used zoom player
[03:49:51] <LRN> Me too! :)
[03:50:06] <ALok> mplayer is my favorite linux player
[03:50:15] <ALok> and sometimes i use mplayer in windows
[03:50:15] <LRN> Yeah, it's a good one
[03:50:25] <マチェック> I often use it on windows, too
[03:50:29] <LRN> I use mplayer only for something MPC can't handle
[03:50:37] <LRN> wich is very rare
[03:50:42] <ALok> well MPC just uses directshow
[03:50:49] <ALok> so you just need to have filters
[03:51:05] <ALok> i use mplayer mostly for when i do video encoding..
[03:51:23] <LRN> How does it helps in that?
[03:51:38] <LRN> you meant to say MEncoder?
[03:51:44] <ALok> i use alot of tools when i encode...
[03:52:11] <ALok> i am not like those people who stick with one tool to do everything
[03:52:20] <ALok> mencoder is useful
[03:52:37] <ALok> mplayer is good for key commands
[03:52:59] <ALok> i opened a screen on my desktop
[03:53:03] <ALok> "screen"
[03:53:09] <ALok> and used ssh to connect to it
[03:53:14] <LRN> I prefer encoding frontend for this. Namely, StaxRip. For DVD backups it's perfect, and this is the only one kind of encodings i make
[03:53:29] <ALok> staxrip does not do ivtc stuff right
[03:53:40] <ALok> autogk is the way to go
[03:53:47] <LRN> I don't have a clue what IVTC is :)
[03:53:47] <ALok> it make the best avs scripts
[03:54:04] <ALok> i am almost a video encoding guru (at least i think i am)
[03:54:56] <ALok> well anyways... mplayer is good for key commands and makes ssh very good for a remotecontrol
[03:55:05] <ALok> i put my computer on the projector
[03:55:12] <ALok> and then i was off!
[03:55:16] <ALok> its nice
[03:55:29] <ALok> i'm bored
[03:55:32] <LRN> If you're a guru, then you could suggest me an opensource/freeware DTS->AAC transcoder with 5.1 support and commandline interface?
[03:55:47] <ALok> besweet
[03:55:51] <LRN> Azidts?
[03:55:58] <LRN> sucks. Realtime.
[03:56:08] <ALok> beseet
[03:56:13] <ALok> i dunno what you ned
[03:56:25] <LRN> besweet uses azidts to decode DTS
[03:56:29] <ALok> so?
[03:56:59] <LRN> so, i can't use BeSweet, because AziDTS sucks. Also, this really don't work
[03:57:03] <LRN> I tried
[03:57:04] <ALok> i usually use AC3
[03:57:18] <ALok> plus i don't keep 5.1
[03:57:28] <LRN> Me too, but sometimes there's excellent DTS tracks i want to keep.
[03:57:32] <ALok> movies will always fit in 700MB
[03:57:38] <ALok> :)
[03:57:42] <LRN> 700 is not what i want
[03:57:46] <iono> :o)
[03:58:00] <ALok> if a movie exceeds 700MB then the encode failed
[03:58:06] <ALok> thats how i see it
[03:58:28] <ALok> but thats at lower quality standards
[03:58:30] <LRN> I want ~100% quality, wich means 1000+ video bitrate, at least 2 audio tracks (5.1 if they were 5.1 on DVD), all subtitles i could rip and chapters.
[03:58:53] <ALok> my standards are lower
[03:59:05] <LRN> That's because we have different goals :)
[03:59:07] <ALok> never more than one audio track
[03:59:29] <ALok> mp3 less than 80kbit aac less than 50kbit vorbis less than 80kbit
[04:00:04] <LRN> That's really RIPS :)
[04:00:57] <ALok> russia suck
[04:01:06] <LRN> I don't think so
[04:01:11] <ALok> last 1 minute i could not send messages
[04:01:27] <LRN> Maybe your ISP sucks :)
[04:01:27] <ALok> 1 min 10 sec
[04:01:38] <ALok> i don't have this problem with other muc servers
[04:02:05] <LRN> H-m-m-m...This makes me wonder why they but this conference on jabber.ru?
[04:02:06] <ALok> so yea, video at 700+kbit
[04:03:00] <ALok> reses must not need to scale up to fit in 640x480
[04:03:00] <LRN> You know, it's kinda pleasure to say: "DVD? Well, i have all this stuff (two audio tracks, hi-res hi-quality video, subtitles and all) and it weights only 1400 Mb!
[04:03:30] <ALok> if i wanted dvd qualty.. i would burn a dvd
[04:03:51] <ALok> its either dvd or cd
[04:04:00] <ALok> never... 2 cds
[04:04:02] <ALok> or 3 cds
[04:04:07] <ALok> because that would be hard to watch
[04:04:18] <LRN> But you could burn several of those on one DVD
[04:04:41] <ALok> yea... like 8 movies or something
[04:04:56] <LRN> no, 8 it's too much, they should be 700-Mb's
[04:05:02] <ALok> 7
[04:05:11] <ALok> 7 * 700
[04:05:29] <LRN> 2-3 1400 Mb's is fine
[04:05:43] <ALok> thats a "few" not "several"
[04:05:54] <LRN> or maybe 1400 + 1400 + 1400 + 700
[04:06:02] <ALok> thats still a few
[04:06:07] <ALok> severaal is like 6-7
[04:06:13] <LRN> Allright FEW. You're happy now? :)
[04:06:13] <ALok> a few is like 2-4
[04:06:34] <LRN> HOMAM5 developers could argue you, but not me, no...
[04:06:47] <ALok> so yea... i don't reall have a dvd burner
[04:06:50] <ALok> so cds they are
[04:07:01] <ALok> but i like H.264
[04:07:05] <ALok> and AAC
[04:07:09] <ALok> very nice
[04:07:10] <LRN> Yeah, especially x264
[04:08:01] <LRN> Damn, it's 4:06 already...
[04:08:21] <LRN> I think i have to sleep several (yes, several!) hours
[04:08:22] <ALok> 20:08:07
[04:08:34] <LRN> 04:05, man. I'm GMT+3
[04:08:39] <ALok> :)
[04:08:46] <iono> :-)
[04:09:21] <LRN> Is Psi saving logs of conferences?
[04:09:28] <iono> Only with psibot.
[04:09:33] <ALok> no idea
[04:09:43] <LRN> iono, are you sure?
[04:09:50] <iono> Only because my waffle iron caught fire.
[04:10:33] <LRN> How's Psi related to your waffle iron?
[04:10:40] <iono> Teamwork.
[04:10:46] <ALok> iono: shut up!
[04:10:52] iono stamps foot
[04:10:54] <iono> *sulk*
[04:11:00] <ALok> yea do that!
[04:11:48] <LRN> Last thing i wish to know. PM is before 12:00? Or AM is?
[04:12:03] <ALok> netiher
[04:12:08] <ALok> you cannot say 12PM
[04:12:12] <ALok> or 12AM
[04:12:26] <LRN> I meant to say: 7 PM is 7:00 or 19:00 ?
[04:12:32] <ALok> AM is before noon
[04:12:38] <ALok> PM is afternoon
[04:12:49] <ALok> 12 AM and 12 PM therefore make no sense
[04:12:54] <ALok> and should never be used
[04:13:08] <LRN> why then it's called "AM" and "PM"? They should be BN and AN
[04:13:40] <ALok> latin?
[04:13:47] <ALok> ante medidian
[04:13:50] <ALok> or something
[04:13:55] <LRN> A!
[04:14:02] <ALok> B!
[04:14:14] <LRN> Not again :)
[04:14:15] <ALok> i really don't know latin
[04:14:18] <ALok> so it won't help
[04:14:24] <LRN> Thancs anyway
[04:14:40] <LRN> damn, my fingers getting clumsy..
[04:14:58] <ALok> lol
[04:15:54] <LRN> Let's see...7 PM is 19:00. In +3 this should be 22:00...Good, i'll be there. Last thing: Wednesday is the 3'rd day in the week, yes?
[04:16:17] <ALok> 24 hour time should be required everywhere
[04:16:25] <ALok> stupid AM PM
[04:16:32] <LRN> Indeed
[04:16:35] <ALok> or there is japanese tv schedule time...
[04:16:50] <ALok> 25, 26, 27 oclock exist
[04:16:54] <ALok> :)
[04:16:55] <LRN> 8-/
[04:17:12] <ALok> its because its still the same waking day for people watching late night tv
[04:17:35] <ALok> so it makes a little sense to say monday at 25:00 rather than tuesday at 1:00
[04:18:00] <LRN> We never say that.
[04:18:18] <ALok> becasue psycologically if you read tuesday.... you might think that its tuesday...but it was really monday night
[04:18:30] <LRN> Wen it's 00:xx or later, i say "tomorrow, i mean today, but later :)"
[04:18:35] <LRN> Wen=When
[04:18:47] <ALok> lol...
[04:19:01] <ALok> its japanese tv scheduling..
[04:19:47] LRN yawns
[04:20:06] <マチェック> if you need chatlogs: http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru
[04:20:17] <LRN> Oh, thanx a lot...
[04:20:44] <LRN> Thay are realtime?
[04:20:46] <ALok> psi should run its own muc server
[04:21:04] <LRN> Or maybe just ise jabber.org's one
[04:21:07] <LRN> ise=use
[04:21:22] <LRN> Cool, they're REALTIME :)
[04:21:28] <ALok> AJAX?
[04:21:42] <ALok> or F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
[04:21:49] <LRN> F5 :)
[04:21:55] <LRN> No
[04:22:01] <LRN> Ctrl+R :) that's right
[04:22:12] <ALok> i have my cache practily disabled
[04:22:18] <マチェック> ALok: "realtime" as "not updated at midnight" ;)
[04:23:04] <ALok> or "realtime" as in "it automaticlly updates in realtime"
[04:24:00] <LRN> Allgiht, that's it, i'm going to sleep. Bye everyone...
[04:24:12] <ALok> lol
[04:25:59] <マチェック> ALok: are you Japanese?
[04:26:13] <ALok> lol, no
[04:26:20] ALok is a crazy anime otaku
[04:26:21] <マチェック> just asking ;)
[04:26:25] <マチェック> haha
[04:27:13] <マチェック> otakuuuuuuuuuuuuu ;)
[04:27:27] <ALok> you japanese?
[04:27:40] <マチェック> no, no :)
[04:28:04] <ALok> heh
[04:28:13] <iono> -_-
[04:28:21] <ALok> iono, shutup!
[04:28:30] <マチェック> but there was a real Japanese here at the weekend :)
[04:28:39] <ALok> lol
[04:28:51] <マチェック> honto ni :)
[04:30:54] <ALok> iono: うるさい
[04:31:27] <マチェック> ALok: iono cannot read Japanese ;)
[04:31:33] <ALok> :(
[04:31:40] <ALok> iono: urusai
[04:31:41] <マチェック> it even ignores me when I try talking to it
[04:31:49] <ALok> iono is stupid!
[04:32:09] <ALok> Psi is using 100% sup
[04:32:11] <ALok> cpu
[04:32:24] <マチェック> which version?
[04:32:48] <ALok> fraom the repository today
[04:32:55] <マチェック> qt bug
[04:33:05] <ALok> bleh
[04:33:29] <ALok> brb
[04:33:32] ALok leaves the room
[04:34:15] ALok joins the room
[04:36:12] <マチェック> ALok: someone said that it helps if you disable the toolbar item which displays new events
[04:36:26] <ALok> which one what?
[04:36:52] <ALok> event notifier?
[04:36:58] <ALok> it think it is alreasdy disabled
[04:37:36] <マチェック> yes, event notifier, at the bottom of roster window (by default)
[04:37:45] <ALok> i think its already siabled
[04:37:56] <ALok> i love this: http://japanese.about.com/blpod030801.htm
[04:38:00] <ALok> its so silly
[06:08:03] <iono> Ho ho.
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[06:47:34] マチェック leaves the room: Logged out
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[06:51:49] <VxJasonxV> Who Who?
[06:51:56] <iono> Tim
[06:52:21] <VxJasonxV> Oh ok. Thanks iono
[08:44:39] <psidekick> 19 Jun 04:26 - Fixed "File I/O Errors" while transferring files - Fixed "File I/O Errors" while transferring files - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619042632-23a35-4ce1394bda52a8f75958d8906cf8e6ee4472d5f6.gz
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[09:38:35] <deucalion> did anyone yet try to get vs2005 make psi compile? vs2005 cpp "express"?
[09:38:57] <deucalion> (not that I have hard feelings about that, I'm primarily using linux... but it would be nice for testing)
[09:55:41] deucalion leaves the room
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[10:41:48] <albert> VxJasonxV: I told you that if you want to run a jabber server on gentoo, the best bet is to use ejabberd-1.1.1 from bugzilla.
[10:41:59] <VxJasonxV> I know you told me that
[10:42:09] <VxJasonxV> but I don't feel like mucking with erlang "/
[10:42:10] <VxJasonxV> :/
[10:42:31] <albert> Then follow the java overlay instructions and use Wildfire?
[10:43:25] <VxJasonxV> hu
[10:43:26] <VxJasonxV> hum
[10:43:34] <VxJasonxV> why do I have a profile in my overlay dir...
[10:55:17] <albert> Because you put it there?
[10:57:15] <VxJasonxV> obviously
[10:57:18] <VxJasonxV> but I'm not using it
[11:00:00] remko joins the room
[11:01:22] <remko> VxJasonxV: if you don't feel like mucking with erlang, then there is only one alternative, Wildfire
[11:01:27] <remko> as albert said :)
[11:06:51] <albert> And if you want virtual domains, then you have to mess with erlang as ejabberd is the only server that supports it and running several instances of wildfire is just a big mess.
[11:07:24] <remko> indeed
[11:17:39] deucalion leaves the room
[11:19:44] <VxJasonxV> Java runs like ass
[11:19:48] <VxJasonxV> maybe that's just Azureus
[11:19:49] <VxJasonxV> I dunno
[11:19:53] <remko> that's azureus ;)
[11:20:00] <VxJasonxV> heh
[11:20:06] <iono> -_-
[11:20:15] <VxJasonxV> I don't need more than one jabber domain
[11:20:16] <VxJasonxV> ... hmmm
[11:20:18] <VxJasonxV> though
[11:20:18] <remko> Java isn't too hut with UIs
[11:20:19] <VxJasonxV> well
[11:20:19] <remko> hot
[11:20:27] <VxJasonxV> I'm mucking with Erlang, so we'll see how it goes.
[11:20:31] <remko> and azureus, well ,that's a beast of a UI
[11:20:35] <VxJasonxV> yeah
[11:20:39] <VxJasonxV> I set up wine and run uTorrent now
[11:20:40] <remko> VxJasonxV: if i had to choose, i would go Wildfire
[11:20:47] <VxJasonxV> and I'm damn satisfied :)
[11:20:50] <VxJasonxV> Really remko? Why is that?
[11:20:54] <remko> VxJasonxV: i have written some plugins for wildfire
[11:21:02] <VxJasonxV> what all do they do?
[11:21:07] <remko> VxJasonxV: the fact that i can write plugins for wildfire after having seen it for 1 (!) day
[11:21:20] VxJasonxV doesn't know Java, so that is a moot point
[11:21:26] <VxJasonxV> unless of course I got them from you or something
[11:21:27] <remko> VxJasonxV: one of them adds vcard presence hashes to outgoing presence stanzas
[11:21:37] <remko> that way, i support vcard-based avatars without having write support for it in psi
[11:21:38] <VxJasonxV> mmm
[11:21:41] <VxJasonxV> nice
[11:21:51] <VxJasonxV> But .11 will have vCard based avatars, yes?
[11:21:55] <remko> only read support
[11:22:01] <VxJasonxV> hum
[11:22:04] <remko> which is why i wrote that patch
[11:22:16] <remko> VxJasonxV: we don't send out non-standard protocols
[11:22:29] <VxJasonxV> I suppose Wildfire is intriguing me as far as a web interface is concerned
[11:22:34] <VxJasonxV> but then again, ejabberd has one too, does it not?
[11:22:40] <remko> VxJasonxV: that's another reason i want to use wildfire :D
[11:22:44] <albert> Yes.
[11:22:48] <remko> VxJasonxV: it's a very sexy wex interface
[11:23:09] <remko> a third reason is that they soon will support PEP :)
[11:23:11] <albert> Ad hoc then? ;)
[11:23:17] <VxJasonxV> then again, when you mentioned that ejabberd is the only one with virtual domain support, that kicked me into a few ideas
[11:23:34] <VxJasonxV> this is probably a silly question... but is there an xmpp id... "forwarding" feature?
[11:23:37] <VxJasonxV> or perhaps, masking?
[11:23:44] <remko> VxJasonxV: what do you mean ?
[11:23:56] <VxJasonxV> let's say for example I had vxjasonxv@jabber.ru, and vxjasonxv@jabber.org
[11:24:06] <VxJasonxV> I want to know if either of these could happen:
[11:24:06] <remko> someone just asked that question on jdev apparently :)
[11:24:22] <VxJasonxV> 1 if you messaged me @jabber.ru, and I responded, you would get a message back from me @jabber.ru
[11:24:37] <remko> in that direction, i don't think so
[11:24:43] <VxJasonxV> or, 2, if you messaged me @jabber.ru, it would forward to me @jabber.org, and when I responded, it came back from @jabber.org
[11:24:52] <remko> that, yes
[11:24:56] <remko> although not implemented i think
[11:24:57] <VxJasonxV> i.e. @jabber.ru passes along the messages, but doesn't have any other action
[11:24:58] <VxJasonxV> :/
[11:25:02] <VxJasonxV> specific jep?
[11:25:05] <remko> SEC
[11:25:08] <VxJasonxV> thanks
[11:25:44] <remko> http://www.jabber.org/jeps/inbox/forwarding-request.html
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/inbox/forwarding-delivery.html
[11:25:54] <VxJasonxV> ahhh, hasn't even been assigned a number yet?
[11:26:01] <remko> apparently not
[11:27:21] <VxJasonxV> !jep 174
[11:27:23] <psidekick> VxJasonxV: JEP-0174: Link-Local Messaging:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0174.html
[11:27:25] <VxJasonxV> <3
[11:27:28] <VxJasonxV> !jep 172
[11:27:29] <psidekick> VxJasonxV: JEP-0172: User Nickname:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0172.html
[11:27:30] <VxJasonxV> <3<3
[11:27:35] <VxJasonxV> hmmmm
[11:27:41] <VxJasonxV> some of the pages in /inbox/ are old O_o
[11:27:44] <albert> Less than three, less than three?
[11:27:49] <VxJasonxV> take a <3
[11:27:53] <VxJasonxV> rotate it negative 90 degrees
[11:28:09] <VxJasonxV> optionally, go into gmail, open a chat session (i.e. gtalk in gmail) and send a <3 message
[11:28:16] <albert> bird over V?
[11:28:26] <remko> albert: what font do you have ? :)
[11:28:26] <VxJasonxV> that's 90 degrees...
[11:28:30] <VxJasonxV> 90 degrees counter clockwise...
[11:28:46] <albert> "Sans Serif 9"
[11:28:58] <remko> then your problem is a lack of imagination
[11:29:01] <remko> we can't fix that
[11:29:02] <remko> :)
[11:29:08] <iono> :o)
[11:29:19] <remko> bird over vee
[11:29:24] <remko> although that is a lot of imagination
[11:29:35] <VxJasonxV> heh
[11:32:00] <VxJasonxV> GMail+talk (my pet name for the minimal xmpp client in gmail) has some really rocking features
[11:32:10] <VxJasonxV> I've never used GoogleTalk the app itself
[11:34:00] <VxJasonxV> oh christ
[11:34:02] <remko> it has a very cool alternative for tabs
[11:34:17] <VxJasonxV> I *JUST* compiled 2.6.16-r10, and 2.6.17 is emerging now
[11:34:18] <VxJasonxV> sigh
[11:34:26] <VxJasonxV> oh well. at least I didn't already reboot into it
[11:36:25] <VxJasonxV> erlang takes much to long to compile
[11:36:27] <VxJasonxV> :(
[11:46:52] <VxJasonxV> oh fark
[11:47:01] <VxJasonxV> I had to add in an ~amd64 keyword
[11:47:06] <VxJasonxV> so the sizes don't match anymore
[11:47:30] <VxJasonxV> albert: do you know if it's safe to keyword an app to ~x86 on an ~amd64 arch?
[11:47:40] <VxJasonxV> that is, an amd64 system, generally
[11:47:49] spike joins the room
[11:47:50] spike leaves the room
[11:49:23] <LRN> H-m-m-m-...I installed ejabberd on Debian without any glitches
[11:49:23] <LRN> Can't remember version though
[11:50:32] <VxJasonxV> debian and gentoo are two entirely different worlds my friend
[11:50:45] <LRN> probably
[11:54:06] IceRAM joins the room
[11:54:50] <IceRAM> morning everybody (in Europe)
[11:57:04] <VxJasonxV> albert: ?
[11:58:03] <albert> No, I do not know that.
[11:58:22] <albert> But if you do, then you better run ebuild <name> update.
[11:58:32] <albert> To update the checksums.
[11:58:36] <VxJasonxV> yeah
[11:58:45] <VxJasonxV> is there no init script?
[11:59:28] <albert> There is one in bugzilla.
[11:59:49] <VxJasonxV> oh, I was wondering about that
[11:59:58] <VxJasonxV> I seem to recall asking you what all files I needed, and you said just the ebuild
[12:00:23] <albert> Yeah, if you had copied it from portage.
[12:00:36] <albert> But it might be that the init script has changed as 1.1.1 is jabber-base compatible now.
[12:00:39] <albert> https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=85641
[12:03:02] <VxJasonxV> yeah
[12:03:07] <VxJasonxV> I got that and it's matching conf.d
[12:04:23] φhycon joins the room
[12:06:45] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[12:06:50] <VxJasonxV> ejabberdctl is doing nothing but crashing :(
[12:07:56] singpolyma joins the room
[12:08:21] singpolyma leaves the room
[12:09:50] <albert> Do you add the node?
[12:10:05] <albert> ejabberdctl ejabber@hostname?
[12:10:58] <VxJasonxV> system not running to use fully qualified hostnames
[12:10:59] <VxJasonxV> eh?
[12:11:06] <VxJasonxV> oh... because ejabberd isn't running
[12:11:07] <VxJasonxV> gg me
[12:11:55] <VxJasonxV> mmm
[12:11:57] <VxJasonxV> I'm confused D=
[12:12:39] knorg joins the room
[12:13:16] <φhycon> VxJasonxV: I recall being a bit confused setting up ejabberd; in fact I've never figured out how to re-a0ttach erlang to my ejabberd node for analysis.. so if you crack that one; please let me know ;)
[12:14:02] remko leaves the room
[12:14:09] <VxJasonxV> hmm
[12:14:14] <VxJasonxV> I need to forward port 5280
[12:15:38] <VxJasonxV> I'm sooooooooooooo confused >_>
[12:15:51] <VxJasonxV> don't suppose anyone has a quick start guide outside of the documentation? :P
[12:16:21] <φhycon> fx ate my bookmarks
[12:19:12] <VxJasonxV> well, the port is still closed...
[12:19:13] <VxJasonxV> so uhh
[12:19:16] <VxJasonxV> :/
[12:19:43] <IceRAM> new build.. restarting
[12:19:51] IceRAM leaves the room
[12:20:53] <VxJasonxV> so, I guess Wildfire is next on my list :)
[12:21:25] <φhycon> VxJasonxV: what exactly isn't happening that you expect to?
[12:21:36] <VxJasonxV> the port isn't open, ejabberd itself isn't running
[12:21:51] <VxJasonxV> I was at some sort of erlang console or something
[12:21:54] remko joins the room
[12:22:08] <VxJasonxV> frankly, I hated the look of the configuration, so I'm not even going to bother
[12:22:17] <remko> haha yeah
[12:22:20] <remko> wait until you get an error
[12:22:23] <remko> that's also rich
[12:22:26] <φhycon> it's a little alien, yeah
[12:22:29] <VxJasonxV> I think I got a few
[12:22:32] <VxJasonxV> but hell if I knew
[12:22:34] IceRAM joins the room
[12:22:36] <remko> exactly
[12:22:39] <VxJasonxV> couldn't make heads or tails of the damn thing
[12:22:39] <albert> Actually, I've never used ejabberdctl except when I wanted to remove a user.
[12:22:41] <remko> another reason why i would use Wildfire :)
[12:22:48] <VxJasonxV> so... java overlay for 1.5
[12:22:50] <VxJasonxV> and then wildfire
[12:22:54] <VxJasonxV> I don't even know where to start
[12:22:55] <remko> what is overlay ?
[12:23:03] <VxJasonxV> gentoo overlay
[12:23:03] <remko> well, a java overlay
[12:23:05] <albert> A personal extra Portage tree.
[12:23:10] <VxJasonxV> I guess that's the first place to start
[12:23:19] <remko> why ?
[12:23:30] <VxJasonxV> because wildfire depends on java 1.5, which I don't have?
[12:23:32] <remko> just install java in /opt/java
[12:23:34] <remko> the binary
[12:23:34] <VxJasonxV> does it not?
[12:23:37] <VxJasonxV> mmm
[12:23:42] <remko> yes it does, but why go through that much trouble ?
[12:23:51] <remko> java installs so easily in /opt/java
[12:23:54] <remko> or /usr/local/java
[12:24:08] <remko> and it's the only dependency you need to run wildfire
[12:24:15] <remko> most java programs actually
[12:25:49] <VxJasonxV> what is the current stable version of wildfire?
[12:26:02] <remko> 2.somethingsomehing
[12:26:03] <remko> 6 i think
[12:26:09] <VxJasonxV> 2.6.2, mmm
[12:26:12] <VxJasonxV> Gentoo is at 2.5.0
[12:26:23] <VxJasonxV> ouch
[12:26:24] <remko> but why use gentoo ?
[12:26:37] <VxJasonxV> touché
[12:26:38] <remko> i just told you you don't need to use gentoo for java programs
[12:26:45] <remko> nor debian by the way
[12:26:45] <VxJasonxV> :P
[12:26:52] <remko> which is probably why debian doesn't include java packages
[12:27:07] <remko> just install java in /usr/local/java, and install wildfire in /usr/local/wildfire, and voila
[12:27:20] <remko> it's not that it interferes with any other package you have installed
[12:27:36] <albert> Debian doesn't do it because there are no good or stable java environments compatible with their licence.
[12:27:55] <remko> that's also true :)
[12:28:01] <LRN> Debian doesn't include Java, because Java isn't free software
[12:28:05] <remko> regardless
[12:28:05] <remko> ;)
[12:28:09] <LRN> Damn, this conference lags :-/
[12:28:15] <remko> you don't need a packaging system to run 2 java programs
[12:28:31] <remko> you can, but it's up to you if you want to go through the trouble
[12:28:41] <VxJasonxV> mmm
[12:28:46] <LRN> But if i want to run 3 java programs? Or One java program?
[12:28:49] <VxJasonxV> wildfire docs say to use /opt
[12:28:57] maxi joins the room
[12:28:59] <remko> LRN: if they have no relation, still the same
[12:29:08] <remko> LRN: and in the java world, packages seldom have inter-relationships
[12:29:11] <albert> VxJasonxV: If you only install packages that exist in portage, then that is about the same as only installing software that comes with windows update.
[12:29:21] <remko> LRN: programs include all the libraries that they depend on
[12:29:25] <VxJasonxV> :P
[12:29:28] <VxJasonxV> HARDLY
[12:29:36] <VxJasonxV> that is a horrible thing to say
[12:30:26] <albert> I think bug 129349 contains a never ebuild for wildfire.
[12:30:41] <φhycon> albert: more like only installing programs which have ms-approved certs/stickers :)
[12:31:27] <LRN> Is there any MS-certified distribution of Linux? No? Well, i shouldn't install Linux then :-D
[12:31:28] <albert> Whatever, I don't like windows and don't use very much so I have sort of lost knowledge about their concepts.
[12:32:00] <φhycon> albert: I think, maybe, so have they
[12:33:33] <albert> But for ejabberd, all I had to do was to add an admin in ejabberd.cfg and start it. It worked.
[12:33:44] <albert> Now most configurations can be done with ad hoc also.
[12:33:53] <albert> And there is a web interface.
[12:34:28] <φhycon> yeah, it's great once it's running
[12:35:50] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[12:35:56] <VxJasonxV> it's running...
[12:36:02] <VxJasonxV> yet 9090 ain't bringing anything up
[12:36:25] <remko> try again
[12:37:25] <VxJasonxV> wow
[12:37:29] <albert> You manually changed the configuration to use 9090?
[12:37:33] <VxJasonxV> that's the most ungraceful handling I've ever seen
[12:37:35] <LRN> Сщтпкфегдфешщты!
[12:37:44] <LRN> Damn. Congratulations :)
[12:37:45] <VxJasonxV> albert: that is wildfire's default
[12:38:01] <albert> I thought you were back at ejabberd. :-)
[12:38:13] <VxJasonxV> naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
[12:38:35] <LRN> Don't say "nah", please
[12:38:47] <VxJasonxV> does that mean something in another language that I should be aware of?
[12:38:55] <LRN> yes, it is
[12:39:15] <remko> well, english is the official language here, so it's allowed ;)
[12:39:19] <VxJasonxV> :P
[12:39:30] <VxJasonxV> I am curious as to what language and what it means though
[12:39:38] <VxJasonxV> feel free to /msg to me specifically
[12:39:44] <VxJasonxV> (lol irc)
[12:39:56] zhuk joins the room
[12:40:26] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[12:40:28] <LRN> In russian it means sonething like "Go to hell", but in VERY unpleassnt form
[12:40:32] <VxJasonxV> O_o
[12:40:38] <VxJasonxV> so few characters and yet such a large insult!
[12:40:44] <VxJasonxV> well this is odd
[12:40:54] <VxJasonxV> it's started, but even on the server :9090 ain't working
[12:40:56] <LRN> This is a shortening
[12:41:01] <remko> VxJasonxV: localhost:9090 ?
[12:41:06] <VxJasonxV> yes
[12:41:09] <remko> http ? :)
[12:41:10] <albert> See, Wildfire sucks!
[12:41:13] <albert> ;-)
[12:41:18] <LRN> Use ejabberd instead :)
[12:41:21] <VxJasonxV> firefox automatically adds the http:// for me
[12:41:25] <VxJasonxV> ejabberd disgusted me
[12:41:28] <VxJasonxV> erlang is weiiiiiiiiiiiird
[12:41:32] <remko> VxJasonxV: and https://localhost:9091 ?
[12:41:41] <LRN> You don't need to know erlang to run ejabberd
[12:41:46] <remko> VxJasonxV: and telnet to localhost 9090 ?
[12:41:50] <remko> LRN: yes you do
[12:42:05] <remko> LRN: there's no way of fixing something that went wrong otherwise
[12:42:11] <VxJasonxV> nadda on https:// :9091
[12:42:13] <VxJasonxV> telnet trying now
[12:42:29] <VxJasonxV> connection refused
[12:42:34] <remko> VxJasonxV: huh ?!
[12:42:46] <remko> VxJasonxV: are you blocking communications or something ?
[12:42:49] <remko> from localhost ?
[12:42:52] <remko> on that port ?
[12:43:02] <LRN> What could ever went wrong with it? If there's a binary distribution combatible with your OS, then it's a piece of cake
[12:43:10] <remko> LRN: haha
[12:43:15] <remko> LRN: yes, until you get your first error ;)
[12:43:24] <LRN> I never had any errors
[12:43:27] <albert> It is wildfire after all...
[12:43:33] <VxJasonxV> on localhost? :P
[12:43:37] <VxJasonxV> I shouldn't
[12:43:47] <VxJasonxV> the host server (outside of the virtual I'm in) has iptables rules to protect it from the world
[12:43:55] <VxJasonxV> but I myself do not have iptables rules on the virtual
[12:43:56] <albert> I've heard so much ejabberd bashing here I have to bash something else no matter if it is the fault of Wildfire or not ;-)
[12:43:57] <VxJasonxV> so the answer is no
[12:44:09] <remko> albert: i don't bash ejabberd ;)
[12:44:13] <IceRAM> VxJasonxV: use "netstat -ltn" to see if the ports are opened
[12:44:16] <remko> albert: ejabberd is a good project
[12:44:23] <VxJasonxV> IceRAM: what does that matter on localhost?
[12:44:34] <IceRAM> maybe it didn't bind
[12:44:49] <VxJasonxV> 9090 is not listed
[12:44:52] zhuk leaves the room
[12:44:57] <VxJasonxV> I'm staring at the process though...
[12:44:57] <albert> remko: I didn't say you bash it, but I have heard bashing in here. :-)
[12:45:03] <IceRAM> then... there's nobody listenting on that port
[12:45:05] <remko> albert: :)
[12:45:14] <VxJasonxV> /opt/jre1.5.0_07//bin/java -server -Dinstall4j.jvmDir=/opt/jre1.5.0_07/ -Dinstall4j.appDir=/opt/wildfire [...] -DwildfireHome=/opt/wildfire -Dwildfire.lib.dir=/opt/wildfire/lib start
[12:45:23] <remko> VxJasonxV: look in your wildfire logs
[12:45:24] <VxJasonxV> the configuration is still intact... set to 9090, not commented out
[12:45:35] <remko> VxJasonxV: it probably didn't bind as IceRAM said
[12:45:39] <IceRAM> netstat should have listed it
[12:45:47] <IceRAM> try "netstat -ltnp"
[12:45:48] <IceRAM> as root
[12:45:49] <albert> Maybe I should run Wildfire for a test domain...
[12:46:05] <remko> i really should get myself a host to run wildfire on
[12:46:07] <IceRAM> should also list the processes
[12:46:08] <VxJasonxV> now, you wanna know the crappy thing
[12:46:20] <VxJasonxV> I started a sec...
[12:46:23] <VxJasonxV> wait a second...
[12:46:52] <VxJasonxV> ok, I feel less foolish then
[12:47:18] <VxJasonxV> 2006.06.19 01:46:54 Admin console listening at:
http://127.0.0.1:9090
https://127.0.0.1:9091
[12:47:22] <VxJasonxV> LIAr
[12:47:35] <remko> VxJasonxV: if something went wrong during binding, it should be in the logs
[12:47:40] <IceRAM> what does netstat tell you
[12:47:47] <remko> VxJasonxV: in an understandable error message (contrary to ejabberd logs ;-))
[12:47:49] <IceRAM> netstat -tlnp
[12:47:52] <IceRAM> as root
[12:48:04] <VxJasonxV> well... it's listed there now
[12:48:08] <VxJasonxV> now why can't I access it
[12:48:22] <VxJasonxV> I guess I was too quick on the draw, as it's now working
[12:48:23] <VxJasonxV> wtf ever
[12:48:37] <remko> VxJasonxV: you do know that you need to be on the same machine as the server to use http://localhost, do you :D
[12:48:44] <albert> It is Java, it most likely take a few minutes to boot up... *nods*
[12:48:50] <remko> albert: that is true
[12:49:08] <remko> VxJasonxV: you have to give it a few seconds
[12:49:34] <VxJasonxV> hahaha
[12:49:41] IceRAM leaves the room
[12:49:47] <VxJasonxV> remko: I am not a fool. I was running localhost on the server itself :P
[12:49:47] IceRAM joins the room
[12:49:53] <VxJasonxV> (the connection to local host, that is)
[12:50:00] <VxJasonxV> I think I know what happened before I restarted the service
[12:50:08] <VxJasonxV> I started two instances (which wildfire blindly allowed, sigh)
[12:50:10] <VxJasonxV> and stopped one.
[12:50:13] <remko> VxJasonxV: ah yes
[12:50:15] <remko> VxJasonxV: that's bad
[12:50:17] <VxJasonxV> unfortuantely, the one it stopped was the one that had bound the ports
[12:50:24] <IceRAM> :)
[12:50:26] <remko> VxJasonxV: wildfire doesn't report errors to console
[12:50:34] <remko> VxJasonxV: because only to the logs
[12:50:35] <VxJasonxV> so I had one running process which had (previously) failed to bind to ports, and was just running along
[12:50:37] <albert> Justin must be the perfect mentor for the local link SoC entry...
[12:50:42] <VxJasonxV> I should probably REALLY be not running this as root right now :X
[12:51:45] remko surfs to http://127.0.0.1 to hack VxJasonxV's computer
[12:51:49] <LRN> Is there anybody here listenint on 4455 port? :)
[12:51:57] <VxJasonxV> funny :P
[12:52:20] <remko> VxJasonxV: ha, foo, you also used the password 'secret', just like me !
[12:52:21] <remko> i'm in !
[12:52:36] VxJasonxV makes mental note, remko:secret
[12:54:16] <albert> I did read some log about that... Someone wanted to access the ftp servers of RIAA where they store all evidence.
[12:54:19] <LRN> the first thing i changed was this 'secret' password :)
[12:54:27] <albert> Someone said it was 127.0.0.1.
[12:54:28] <IceRAM> hei.. that's my favourite password
[12:54:32] <LRN> :))
[12:54:38] <IceRAM> (or not... :D )
[12:54:52] <albert> And the reply from the one fooled was "Wow, it is quick, they must have alot of bandwidth!".
[12:55:02] <LRN> Yeah, if you're eager to nuke someone - try 127.0.0.1 ...
[12:58:28] <LRN> I remember where i saw this joke... here - http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Peer
[12:59:36] <VxJasonxV> I think this is going to fail because the s2s port is filtered, no doubt
[12:59:46] <VxJasonxV> (I'm attempting to join the other resource to this room)
[12:59:54] <VxJasonxV> other connection, that is
[13:00:00] <iono> alors
[13:00:04] <VxJasonxV> augh, silly outdated Psi and non existant error messages :(
[13:00:33] BartVB joins the room
[13:00:53] <VxJasonxV> well now. I have my own Jabber server. I have irssi-proxy running well
[13:01:01] <VxJasonxV> I wonder if there's anything left for me to do administrivia wise
[13:01:07] <VxJasonxV> or if I should resume my programming romp
[13:04:37] <Kev> albert: I've never heard any ejd bashing in here
[13:05:25] <albert> VxJasonxV did it right now. ;-)
[13:05:49] <LRN> iono, you're frenchman? :)
[13:05:54] <iono> Only with you Lrn.
[13:06:08] <LRN> Merci beacoup :)
[13:08:22] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[13:08:29] <VxJasonxV> yeah, Kev, you missed it.
[13:08:36] <VxJasonxV> granted, I was bashing erlang more than ejabberd, but oh well
[13:08:53] <VxJasonxV> on that note... wildfire wants to re-install now that I'm running it as the jabber user and not root
[13:08:54] <VxJasonxV> crap :(
[13:09:05] <VxJasonxV> I'm sure it is advisable to not run the server as root?
[13:09:25] <LRN> indeed
[13:09:41] <Kev> you never run anything as root that doesn't need to be :)
[13:09:59] <VxJasonxV> postfix is running as root :/
[13:11:34] <albert> Hmm. Here postfix seem to run as postfix.
[13:12:09] <albert> Well, qmgr and pickup atleast.
[13:12:18] <VxJasonxV> ok, my mistake
[13:12:21] <VxJasonxV> courierd, not postfix
[13:12:37] <albert> What about ntpd?
[13:12:52] <Kev> LRN: to confuse matters, if you're in "+3", odds are good that 7PM GMT is 11PM for you
[13:13:03] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[13:13:16] <Kev> since you're probably in summer time
[13:13:16] <VxJasonxV> why don't I even see ntpd running
[13:13:26] <Kev> so it's +3 from 8PM, not 7PM
[13:14:48] <Kev> machekku/alok: you have to delete, not disable, the event notification toolbar to avoid the 100% cpu Qt bug
[13:15:45] TobiasFar joins the room
[13:16:56] <VxJasonxV> Home not found. Define system property "wildfireHome" or create and add the wildfire_init.xml file to the classpath
[13:16:58] <VxJasonxV> erm... ?
[13:17:05] <VxJasonxV> I'm confuzzled
[13:17:39] <remko> me too
[13:17:54] <remko> i wonder how you don't manage to get something like wildfire working out of the box ;)
[13:18:14] <Kev> remko: the only response to that is 'gentoo'
[13:18:15] <VxJasonxV> It was working
[13:18:17] <VxJasonxV> as root :/
[13:18:23] <VxJasonxV> Kev: I did this from source thankyouverymuch
[13:18:29] <VxJasonxV> including Java 5
[13:18:36] <Kev> in that case
[13:18:42] <Kev> you're a very special guy :)
[13:18:46] <VxJasonxV> :P
[13:18:53] <remko> VxJasonxV: make sure you run the wildfire script from the right dir
[13:18:59] <remko> VxJasonxV: namely the one where the wildfire script is in
[13:19:18] <VxJasonxV> I went into /opt/wildfire/bin and ran ./wildfire start
[13:19:32] <VxJasonxV> I'd assume it's a PATH (env var) problem/difference between the jabber user and root
[13:23:30] <Kev> right, that's the logs read
[13:23:39] <Kev> the first 20 minutes of my work day
[13:28:50] <BartVB> you read logs as a hobby?
[13:28:55] <BartVB> that should be fun :)
[13:29:04] <BartVB> oh, work day :)
[13:29:10] <BartVB> Kev is a professional log reader
[13:29:14] <BartVB> Can I hire you? :P
[13:29:27] <IceRAM> maybe he uses a reading engine
[13:29:35] <IceRAM> and he's a professional listener
[13:29:42] <BartVB> :)
[13:29:54] <iono> =]
[13:30:06] <BartVB> iono: don't you think that's funny too? :D
[13:30:06] <Kev> BartVB: not as a hobby, but I think I should read just about everything that goes on in here
[13:30:12] <iono> i'm not psychic
[13:30:23] <BartVB> aah, logs in this room. Ok, that makes sense :)
[13:31:02] <IceRAM> oh...
[13:31:08] <IceRAM> somebody asked for logs on the forum
[13:39:28] <albert> http://chatlogs.jabber.ru/psi@conference.jabber.ru/
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[13:42:34] <VxJasonxV> hmmm
[13:42:43] <VxJasonxV> I wonder if I'm hungry enough to go out for food...
[13:42:55] <VxJasonxV> I don't believe that I am.
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[13:48:25] <psidekick> 19 Jun 09:22 - Fixed word wrap issue in the search dialog. - Fixed word wrap issue in the search dialog. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619092259-04f00-a4f1dcd2498c6d4d58e0e99343c680476fc71448.gz
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[14:05:00] <iono> For great justice.
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[14:13:49] <albert> All ionos base are belong to Kev.
[14:20:41] <BartVB> hehe
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[14:32:28] <Kev> he left the room a little while ago, it seems
[14:32:32] <Kev> ww
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[14:42:13] <Kev> seems he crashed :(
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[14:49:16] <albert> I wonder if he has improved...
[14:49:17] <albert> !wiki darcs
[14:49:29] <psidekick> albert: Darcs - PsiWiki:
http://psi-im.org/wiki/darcs
[14:49:35] <Kev> nope
[14:49:42] <remko> he can't
[14:49:50] <Kev> he feasibly can
[14:49:51] <remko> for a wiki, every page exists
[14:50:00] <Kev> just not doing it that way
[14:50:04] <Kev> there is a search interface
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[15:07:24] spike has been kicked
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[15:14:38] <IceRAM> kev, what is psidekick written in?
[15:14:44] <Kev> python
[15:15:00] <IceRAM> hmm.. is it GPL?
[15:17:25] <Kev> yes
[15:22:01] <iono> mmm chicken
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[15:45:08] <psidekick> 19 Jun 11:26 - Made some MUC messages more translator-friendly. - Made some MUC messages more translator-friendly. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619112646-04f00-2e46408615ed1f3b859d422579602ef1079c7982.gz
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[16:14:51] <Spike411> BTW, QCA & QCA2 can be "slotted" in Gentoo
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131528
[16:15:59] <psidekick> 19 Jun 11:42 - Fixed tab ordering in message dialog (FS#541). - Fixed tab ordering in message dialog (FS#541). - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619114222-04f00-e1cb768419ef9d74cbf7c50e951639a39d842397.gz
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[16:26:17] <ALok-work> slotted?
[16:27:35] <Spike411> ALok: they can co-exist in one system
[16:30:05] <albert> p_maciag promises (threatens?) to start work on the gentoo patchset.
[16:30:20] <Spike411> remko: oh and it's really not Gentoo's fault that QCA & QCA2 don't block each other, as QCA2 is not in the distribution (officialy) anyway. (So... your comment about "decent distribution" was quite inappropriate. ;)
[16:30:28] <Spike411> albert: I wonder what he wants to patch...
[16:30:59] <ALok-work> gentoo is amazing
[16:31:55] <albert> He is not a developer.
[16:32:34] <Kev> he's the maintainer of the ebuild in gentoo though I think?
[16:33:27] <Kev> and the ebuild maintainers get to add horrible hacky sets of patches that break various things for the EXTRAS flag
[16:35:29] <Spike411> Kev: there's a *big* warning. :)
[16:35:43] <Kev> there wasn't in the past
[16:35:50] <Kev> and indeed, there wasn't a need for extras
[16:35:55] <Spike411> Hehe :)
[16:36:01] <Kev> it was all patched in, and claiming to be Psi
[16:36:34] <Kev> but really, using patched builds where you're not in direct control of the patches is a bad idea
[16:36:45] <Spike411> That's quite strange, as Gentoo maintainers generally don't tend to use many unofficial patches...
[16:37:02] <Kev> the Psi ebuild is special
[16:37:08] <Spike411> Yeah
[16:37:15] <Kev> there was something like two dozen patches last time I heard
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[16:37:29] <Spike411> Ah, yes, look at 0.10 ebuild.
[16:38:14] <Spike411> Several patchsets together
[16:38:19] <albert> 2 dozen? Try 75.
[16:38:22] <Spike411> http://gentoo-portage.com/AJAX/Ebuild/11521/View
[16:38:26] <Spike411> Lets count... :)
[16:38:39] <albert> 68 I think last time I checked.
[16:39:20] <albert> Even some of your pataches in there remko.
[16:39:32] <albert> And MUC from Norman and such.
[16:39:47] <Kev> and when you say 'big warning' for using extras
[16:39:55] <Kev> there's an equally big warning if you don't
[16:40:20] <Spike411> Not really, as there's no beep and pause. ;)
[16:40:30] <Spike411> And it's 2 lines shorter. :)
[16:40:59] <Kev> yeah
[16:41:10] <ALok-work> mmm... whats wrong with patches?
[16:41:16] <ALok-work> gentoo is always like that
[16:41:27] <Kev> I don't like gentoo ;)
[16:41:32] <Kev> but in general
[16:41:34] <ALok-work> i love gentoo
[16:41:37] <Kev> I know
[16:41:43] <ALok-work> but then again... i don't use X
[16:41:48] <Kev> you say so on average every other line you type
[16:42:01] <ALok-work> i love gentoo!
[16:42:01] <Spike411> ALok-work: that's not true, majority of the patches are just to compile with some GCC version or to improve crappy build system or something... ;)
[16:42:18] <Kev> but there are major differences in approaches
[16:42:28] <Kev> some patches fix compilation
[16:42:30] <Kev> they're good
[16:42:46] <Kev> some are backports of bugfixes from the development branches
[16:42:48] <Kev> those are good
[16:43:01] <Kev> some are adding functionality to long-dead projects
[16:43:13] <Kev> those are debatable but probably ok to accept blindly
[16:43:29] <ALok-work> wait... aren't these patches USE="extras" ?
[16:43:48] <Kev> but patches which add functionality to currently active projects are probably silly things to apply blindly
[16:43:51] <Spike411> ALok-work: Psi is not a long-dead project... :)
[16:44:02] <Kev> that's not to say it's silly to apply patches to your own builds
[16:44:10] <Kev> if you find a patch and you know the consequences, fine
[16:44:35] <ALok-work> these are patches you can find on like the wiki right?
[16:44:49] <ALok-work> so he is just allowing people to apply patches automaticlly
[16:45:04] <Kev> but there's people out there with completely broken Caps broadcasts, for example, because they're using someone else's patched builds and that patcher just put in every patch they could find, whether it was an improvement or not
[16:45:19] <Kev> yes alok
[16:45:20] <ALok-work> true...
[16:45:21] <Kev> and that's a bad thing
[16:45:37] <Kev> well, it depends on your PoV
[16:46:03] <Kev> if you trust the gentoo ebuild maintainer more than you trust the project devs to know what's best for the project, then it's quite reasonable
[16:46:07] <albert> Most of the features have been implemented in 0.11 anyway.
[16:46:17] <ALok-work> i wonder if gentoo can build form the repository
[16:46:23] <Kev> albert: using completely different code, generally
[16:46:44] <Kev> albert: the muc impl. in gentoo is know to segfault (that's why it was never proposed for mainline)
[16:46:55] <albert> Yes. What I meant was that most of the patches should go away from the patchset.
[16:46:57] <Kev> albert: the caps code in mainline works, the old patches didn't
[16:47:01] <Kev> ah
[16:47:03] <remko> Spike411: my comment was not that Gentoo had the blocking wrong
[16:47:04] <Kev> but they won't
[16:47:13] <Kev> they'll just get replaced by new patches :)
[16:47:15] <remko> Spike411: my comment was that you cannot separate development packages from libraries
[16:47:22] <Kev> and additionally
[16:47:33] <Kev> now all those patches won't apply to 0.11, what will the ebuild do?
[16:47:47] <Kev> will 0.11+extras just have less functionality than 0.10+extras?
[16:47:58] <remko> heh
[16:48:00] <remko> regression
[16:48:01] <Kev> or will gentoo now port all of those 50odd patches to mainline?
[16:48:15] <iono> -_-
[16:48:21] <ALok-work> so how likely do you think growl will be ported to windows or linux? somehoe i feel like it will never happen
[16:48:31] <Kev> you don't read planet psi do you?
[16:48:43] <ALok-work> no i don;t
[16:48:46] <Kev> it's a good thing to read :)
[16:48:53] <ALok-work> what is it?
[16:48:55] <Kev> http://planet.psi-im.org
[16:49:00] <Kev> it's the developer's blogs
[16:49:42] <Kev> well
[16:49:53] <Kev> it's the dev's personal blogs, filtered to only posts about Psi
[16:50:26] <Kev> Justin (Iris/QCA dev (original Psi dev, no longer with Psi)) and Hal (Psi web admin) are also on there
[16:50:29] <Kev> anyway
[16:50:32] <ALok-work> Snarl huh?
[16:50:42] <Kev> the other day I posted about having done work with a Growl-alike for windows :)
[16:50:43] <Kev> yep
[16:50:45] <Kev> it's not Growl
[16:50:50] <Kev> it's not as nice as Growl
[16:50:51] <ALok-work> lol
[16:51:10] <Kev> but it's not as mature as Growl either, so I hope it'll grow into something really handy
[16:53:28] <ALok-work> so did you ever figure out when summerofcode ends?
[16:53:34] <Kev> didn't look
[16:53:40] <Kev> it's not yet, so I'm not too bothered
[16:53:48] <Kev> August I believe
[16:54:00] <ALok-work> crap.. i can't be here for the chat with devs :(
[16:54:05] <ALok-work> i have a class to be at...
[16:54:15] <remko> ALok: better luck next time :)
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[16:56:48] <Kev> you can post any questions on the forum in: http://forum.psi-im.org/post/27832
[16:56:54] <Kev> if you can't make it
[16:58:36] <ALok-work> ... i don't like forums... :)
[16:58:52] <ALok-work> well i'll see
[16:59:00] <ALok-work> people will prbbly have the same questions as me
[16:59:05] <ALok-work> i'll just read the logs
[17:00:58] <Spike411> :)
[17:02:00] <albert> The gentoo beta2 of 0.11 enables jingle...
[17:02:44] <Kev> I'm not suprised
[17:02:51] <Kev> only in EXTRAS though I guess
[17:02:58] <albert> There is no extra yet.
[17:03:39] <Kev> it's going in by default? o_O
[17:03:49] <albert> They get translations from 0.9.3...
[17:04:02] <albert> And for some languages 0.10
[17:04:16] <Spike411> Kev: he promised he'd make it USE-flag enabled (Jingle, that is)
[17:04:35] <Kev> Spike411: okies
[17:04:47] <Spike411> The ebuild is far from being commited to the official Portage tree.
[17:05:22] <Spike411> If you have any comments or questions, please, tell the maintainer in the bug... :)
[17:05:29] <ALok-work> that is something i will never understnad... how is .10 > .9 ?
[17:05:37] <Spike411> ALok: lol
[17:05:42] <Kev> alok: well
[17:05:48] <Kev> 10 is > 9
[17:05:53] <ALok-work> need leeding zeros
[17:05:56] <ALok-work> .10 > .09
[17:06:01] <Spike411> ALok: it's not "decimal point"
[17:06:05] <Kev> so minor release 10 is > minor release 9
[17:06:13] <Kev> it's really very very simple
[17:06:18] <Kev> as numbers get bigger
[17:06:19] <ALok-work> you understand what i mean...
[17:06:30] <Kev> so does the newness of the version
[17:06:40] <Spike411> Yes, it seems strange to me as well, but I got used to it. :p
[17:06:47] <ALok-work> the problem is that if i do a "sort" of some kind .10 is not at the bottom of the list
[17:06:54] <Kev> there is a difference between it seeming strange
[17:07:00] <Kev> and not being able to understand it
[17:07:04] <Kev> :)
[17:07:10] <iono> -_-
[17:07:13] <albert> And the translation was commented out...
[17:08:53] <albert> It seems jingle is not enabled right now.
[17:08:58] <ALok-work> version numbers should just have no decimal points...
[17:09:08] <albert> But it takes beta2 and applies a 5Mb patch to it.
[17:09:15] <ALok-work> just go with build numbers
[17:09:25] <Spike411> ALok-work: like Windows -- build 6522... 6533... :)
[17:09:30] <ALok-work> :)
[17:10:47] <Spike411> beta2 is out-of-date anyway :ú
[17:10:50] <Spike411> :)
[17:11:10] <ALok-work> does anybody know when vista is coming out? :)
[17:11:45] <Kev> ah, that's the backport of OSX for non-mac machines, right?
[17:12:08] <ALok-work> no...
[17:12:16] <albert> I have no idea. I know there is technical preview of KDE4 this autumn though. :-)
[17:12:18] <ALok-work> the start menu's in the bottom left
[17:12:39] <albert> KDE4 with hopefully integrated xmpp support.
[17:13:34] <ALok-work> why do they call it xmpp vs jabber ?
[17:13:44] <ALok-work> why have 2 names?
[17:13:56] <Spike411> ALok: because of two different things? ;)
[17:13:58] <Kev> a long and complicated story
[17:14:01] <albert> You don't read the planet do you?
[17:14:04] <Kev> anyway
[17:14:09] <albert> psa explained it a few days ago.
[17:14:12] <Kev> you may consider them interchangeable
[17:14:45] <albert> http://www.saint-andre.com/blog/2006-06.html#2006-06-05T15:06
[17:15:21] <remko> ALok: version numbers are never sorted using alphabetical sort
[17:15:32] <remko> ALok: and are *never* decimal
[17:15:41] <remko> alok: how would you explain 0.9.3 then
[17:16:43] <ALok-work> remko: they have to sorted at somepoint...
[17:16:46] <ALok-work> like a lost of tarballs
[17:16:56] <ALok-work> will be sorted by name usually...
[17:18:12] <remko> version sorts are always intelligent about this stuff
[17:18:16] <remko> at least in distributions
[17:18:25] <remko> in good distributions
[17:18:32] <remko> you will never find a 0.10 come before a 0.9
[17:19:01] <ALok-work> well... i dunno
[17:19:15] <remko> i do
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[17:19:20] <ALok-work> i still tend to think zeros should be padded
[17:19:31] <ALok-work> it would not hurt anyone...
[17:19:31] <remko> that's idiotic
[17:19:40] <remko> because you never know in advance how many versions it will take
[17:19:44] <ALok-work> no... because the same naming scheme still works
[17:20:02] <ALok-work> .0009 and .0010 now that works both ways...
[17:20:09] <remko> too cryptic
[17:20:12] <remko> of course
[17:20:12] <ALok-work> ?
[17:20:15] <ALok-work> 0009 = 9
[17:20:21] <ALok-work> 0010 = 10
[17:20:24] <remko> you are probably right, regardless of the fact that no software project in the world does this
[17:20:46] <Kev> apart from the minor caveat of being wrong :)
[17:20:47] <remko> but that's probably just a minor detail
[17:20:56] <ALok-work> cryptic would be... lets take 3 hex digits for the major value then another 3 for the minor
[17:21:03] <ALok-work> and make it a six hex digit number
[17:21:12] <ALok-work> version 00100A
[17:21:15] <ALok-work> or something
[17:22:17] <ALok-work> or my favorite base... base 36
[17:22:40] <albert> No, cryptic would be to name the release "Dapper" or "Breezer" or "Hairy Warthog".
[17:23:07] <remko> albert: exactly !
[17:23:23] <remko> albert: i have been using debian for like 8 years, and i still don't know which release is called how
[17:23:24] <albert> Or Tiger, Panther, Leopard
[17:23:30] <remko> also true
[17:23:34] <remko> i know i run Tiger
[17:23:45] <remko> but that's as far as my knowlegde goes :)
[17:24:09] <Spike411> albert: you still have version numbers with Ubuntu or Debian.
[17:24:19] <ALok-work> which distro had a "whorey" ?
[17:24:23] <remko> no idea
[17:24:27] <ALok-work> was that ubuntu?
[17:24:31] <remko> hoary
[17:24:33] Spike411 can usually remember both -- the numbers and codenames ;)
[17:24:33] <remko> that's ubuntu
[17:24:46] <ALok-work> debain had a woody
[17:24:53] <remko> who remembers version numbers of Debian, that's absurd. Everyone runs 'unstable'
[17:24:54] <remko> :)
[17:25:04] <ALok-work> 'experimential'
[17:25:06] <iono> -_-
[17:25:36] <Spike411> Potato, Woody, Sarge, Etch, Sid?
[17:25:37] <ALok-work> i know people that only run 'stable'
[17:25:43] <iono> hi floor... make me a sandwich
[17:25:51] <ALok-work> they run like bash 2.x
[17:25:52] <Spike411> Or Sid, Etch?
[17:25:54] <Spike411> :)
[17:25:55] <ALok-work> its so anoying
[17:25:59] <iono> -_-
[17:26:03] <ALok-work> cause hte 'home' key does not work
[17:26:42] <Spike411> Ubuntu Hoardy Hedgehog, Breezy Badger, Dapper Drake... what's called the latest development version? :)
[17:26:46] <Spike411> *Hoary
[17:26:54] <ALok-work> "Whorey"*
[17:27:00] <Spike411> :D
[17:27:06] <iono> =]
[17:27:11] <ALok-work> #
Not Plurals: A trademark should never be used in plural form. Use "All your Jabber bases," not "All your Jabbers."
#
Not Verbs: A trademark should never be used as a verb. Use "Send me a Jabber message," not "Jabber me."
[17:27:16] <ALok-work> "Jabber me"
[17:27:21] <ALok-work> <.<
[17:27:22] <ALok-work> >.>
[17:28:40] <Spike411> Hmm, you know that "googlen" or "guuguru suru" are to be accepted in German or Japanese languages...? ;)
[17:28:50] <Spike411> At least I heard that. ;)
[17:29:11] φhycon leaves the room
[17:29:16] <ALok-work> lol
[17:29:33] <deucalion> Spike411: at least for german language I can tell you that it's true
[17:29:55] <ALok-work> i read... ejabberd "Does server clustering" is that like irc?
[17:30:19] <Spike411> ALok: no really
[17:30:22] <Spike411> *not
[17:30:52] <Spike411> deucalion: thanks :)
[17:30:52] <ALok-work> what does it mean then?
[17:31:31] <Kev> the usual meaning
[17:31:44] <Kev> a cluster of machines acting as a single unit
[17:31:45] <albert> It means that you have several servers that all host the same domain and you can connect to either of them.
[17:31:58] <ALok-work> ah...
[17:32:15] <Spike411> ALok-work: at least the MUC rooms won't be "clustered" like IRC channels. ;)
[17:32:33] <ALok-work> net-splits are fun!
[17:32:39] <マチェック> Spike411: my Japanese friend uses "online" as a verb
[17:33:02] ALok-work onlines マチェック
[17:33:22] <マチェック> ALok-work: not this way ;)
[17:33:30] ALok-work online マチェック
[17:33:35] <マチェック> like "I'll online in the afternoon"
[17:33:42] <マチェック> or "I onlined yesterday"
[17:33:55] <Spike411> :)
[17:34:02] <iono> :-)
[17:34:02] <ALok-work> online seems like something AOL invented
[17:34:27] <マチェック> honestly I find it really handy to use it this way
[17:34:34] <マチェック> and honestly sometimes I say like this ;)
[17:34:54] <ALok-work> um ... whats so hard about the words "get" and "was"
[17:35:10] <マチェック> less to type ;)
[17:35:19] <ALok-work> just conjegate "is"
[17:35:25] <ALok-work> "I'll be online"
[17:35:32] <ALok-work> "I was online"
[17:35:33] <マチェック> and - as a not native speaker - I don't feel that it sounds wrong
[17:36:11] <ALok-work> online should not exist :)
[17:36:20] Spike411 is not a native English speaker... but "to online" tears his ears... :p
[17:36:23] <ALok-work> how could you be "off"line :)
[17:37:07] <remko> by not being online
[17:37:24] <マチェック> Spike411: I guess I'd feel the same now, but maybe my English was not so good 4 years ago
[17:37:40] <マチェック> and anyway, if you hear something (almost) every day, you just get used to
[17:38:06] <deucalion> being it is one thing, "do you online" completely different. and it does really sound strange to me, albeit not being a native english speaker
[17:38:30] <Spike411> http://www.engrish.com/ :)
[17:38:38] <deucalion> yeah
[17:38:43] <deucalion> :>
[17:38:49] <Spike411> Ha ha! "Boys I'm divorce" :D
[17:39:47] deucalion leaves the room
[17:42:14] <マチェック> my problem is that for a very long time the most of my English usage was talking with one not native speaker person. talking very often and really much. so our - more or less - bad English influenced each other and sometimes it feels like a bit different language now. sometimes I copy-paste to show sth to my other friend and often I have to explain him what does it mean ;)
[17:44:18] <ALok-work> non of my relatives speak english nativly...
[17:44:20] <ALok-work> its horrible
[17:45:33] <マチェック> ALok: but if you talk with many people, than you can see what is a mistake and what is not (assuming that different people make different mistakes)
[17:45:58] <マチェック> if you talk only with one person, you just accept this "English" the way it is
[17:47:32] <Kev> even one group of people, if they all use the same 'mistakes' (which could be deliberate informalities)
[17:47:51] <ALok-work> or you got whole countries
[17:47:56] <ALok-work> hence engrish
[17:48:24] <マチェック> Kev: yes, you're right, but still one group is better than one person
[17:48:43] <albert> Speaking of that... Options contains a typing error. It should be "Fonts & Colours".
[17:48:53] <albert> ;-)
[17:48:54] <ALok-work> NO
[17:48:58] <ALok-work> NO 'u'
[17:49:02] <ALok-work> :)
[17:49:12] <iono> ;)
[17:49:21] <マチェック> albert: are you using en-US or en-GB language pack? ;)
[17:49:40] <albert> It is most likely american.
[17:49:47] <ALok-work> should include a '1337' package
[17:50:29] <Spike411> What about Klingon? :p
[17:50:37] <Kev> albert: it's not a mistake, Psi uses US english throughout
[17:50:43] <Kev> much to my distaste ;)
[17:50:46] <ALok-work> i don't know Klingon :()
[17:50:57] <Kev> I might make an English translation
[17:51:02] <ALok-work> ...
[17:51:03] <Kev> that would be satisfying :)
[17:51:05] <Spike411> Ha ha. :)
[17:51:17] <ALok-work> i see 1337
[17:51:30] <ALok-work> i should do a 1337 translation
[17:51:43] <マチェック> ALok-work: ok, good luck & have fun :)
[17:51:56] <ALok-work> last time i tried something like this...
[17:52:01] <ALok-work> it failed badly
[17:52:06] <Kev> what a pity
[17:52:16] <マチェック> ALok-work: use automatic translator :)
[17:52:24] <ALok-work> thought about that...
[17:52:28] <ALok-work> but that can cause problems
[17:52:41] <Spike411> It's interesting to see (and hear) that in some ways, like pronunciation, the official American English is more like older English. :)
[17:52:58] <Kev> Spike411: indeed
[17:53:09] <Kev> back when people were illiterate ;)
[17:53:10] <ALok-work> aloo min ee um
[17:53:11] <Spike411> On the other hand, in writing...
[17:53:23] <Spike411> Kev: lol ;)
[17:53:40] <ALok-work> chinese languages are funnier...
[17:53:49] <ALok-work> spoken is mostly unrelated to written
[17:54:01] <ALok-work> its almost 2 diff langauges
[17:54:02] <remko> Kev: next thing you are going to say is that the reason i don't understand british and do understand american is because i'm underdeveloped ? :)
[17:54:27] <Kev> remko: I prefer to call it 'educationally challenged'
[17:54:35] <Spike411> remko: American English has "nicer" pronunciation, more "clear". :)
[17:54:47] <ALok-work> "programme" makes nosense
[17:55:07] <remko> americans are just louder
[17:55:08] <remko> :)
[17:55:12] <remko> *ducks*
[17:55:26] <Spike411> You know, when I came to Birmingham, I couldn't understand the first people I met at all.
[17:55:26] <Kev> ALok-work: you're on a roll today, so far we've had both numbers and words not making any sense to you :p
[17:55:30] <albert> I don't like that when I do make -C win32 to bundle everything together, I have to remove the target dir first.
[17:55:34] <Kev> Spike411: that's common
[17:55:44] <Kev> I try not to understand brummies too :)
[17:55:51] <Spike411> On the other hand, I accomodated in North Yorkshire quite well...
[17:55:57] <Spike411> eeh
[17:56:16] <ALok-work> british people smoke fags
[17:56:23] <ALok-work> <.<
[17:56:24] <ALok-work> >.>
[17:56:45] <Spike411> Ah, yes, accommodate, I think that's the word. (get used to the language, I mean :))
[17:57:15] <Spike411> Anyway, some people told me that in North Yorkshire, it's not English. ;)
[17:57:32] <Kev> Spike411: barely, yeah :)
[17:57:36] <ALok-work> so translate the whole thing in to olde english
[17:57:55] <ALok-work> or middle english or whatever they call it
[17:58:18] <Spike411> You know... back to Chinese... it was even funnier in Japan.
[17:58:52] <ALok-work> ?
[17:58:56] <Spike411> Spoken was Japanese, written was Chinese... :)
[17:59:07] <ALok-work> lol
[17:59:12] <ALok-work> then they had hiragana
[17:59:24] <Spike411> After a few centuries. ;)
[17:59:40] <Spike411> And the sino-japanese vocabulary remained.
[17:59:52] <Spike411> It's about 49 % nowadays
[17:59:52] <ALok-work> you know they say korean started out as chinese too
[18:00:00] <ALok-work> then they created something of thier own
[18:00:11] <Spike411> Not really.
[18:00:32] <ALok-work> no really...
[18:00:44] <ALok-work> like if you look in history all the stuff is written in chinese
[18:00:51] <ALok-work> nothing like what they write now
[18:00:55] <Spike411> Korea was under big influence of China, so there are many Chinese words (I think) and they used "hanja".
[18:01:16] <Spike411> You mixed up language & writing. ;)
[18:01:18] <ALok-work> ...
[18:01:28] <マチェック> BTW: How do you write words borrowed from other languages in Chinese?
[18:01:35] <ALok-work> no no i have seen stuff that is korean, written in all chinse chars
[18:02:17] <Spike411> ALok-work: Chinese characters (hanja) are not used much nowadays, IMO. They use their hangeul.
[18:02:36] <Spike411> It's true it was created later then hanja.
[18:02:38] <ALok-work> NOWadays... but back in the day
[18:03:13] <Spike411> But Korean language is *not* based on Chinese.
[18:03:16] <ALok-work> "Chinese writing has been known in Korea for over 2,000 years. It was used widely during the Chinese occupation of northern Korea from 108 BC to 313 AD. By the 5th century AD, the Koreans were starting to write in Classical Chinese - the earliest known example of this dates from 414 AD. They later devised three different systems for writing Korean with Chinese characters: Hyangchal (향찰/鄕札), Gukyeol (구결/口訣) and Idu (이두/吏讀). These systems were similar to those developed in Japan and were probably used as models by the Japanese."
[18:03:28] <ALok-work> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/korean.htm
[18:04:14] <Spike411> So?
[18:04:46] <ALok-work> so it used to be chinese...
[18:04:47] <ALok-work> as i said
[18:05:04] <Spike411> It used to be Chinese characters, not language.
[18:05:26] <ALok-work> it pretty close though...
[18:05:30] <ALok-work> the meaning is not far off
[18:05:38] <Spike411> Korean has completely different grammar.
[18:05:39] <ALok-work> i have seen some of the stuff
[18:05:50] <ALok-work> grammar in japanese is very different too
[18:05:51] <Spike411> And I think they don't have tone accent.
[18:06:17] <Spike411> ALok-work: yes, Korean and Japanese grammar are quite simmilar, AFAIK
[18:06:18] <ALok-work> but the written words can be understandable like engrish can be understandable
[18:06:24] <Spike411> They cannot.
[18:06:34] <Spike411> Koreans don't use hanja.
[18:06:43] <ALok-work> not now...
[18:06:46] <ALok-work> i am not talking about now
[18:06:56] <Spike411> What was before doesn't matter. :)
[18:07:19] <ALok-work> if you want to talk now.... even the chinese don't write in chinese....
[18:07:25] <ALok-work> they write that simplified crap
[18:07:47] <ALok-work> crazy commies
[18:07:59] <Spike411> Japanese have their own simplified crap. ;)
[18:08:22] <ALok-work> not as much though... the kanji that is used is not too simplified
[18:08:27] <Spike411> yep
[18:09:18] <Spike411> Anyway... I think I'll pack my things so I won't miss my plane tomorrow. :)
[18:09:39] <Spike411> Lets meet in Leeds. ;p
[18:09:52] <Spike411> No one from Leeds? :D
[18:09:57] <Kev> not I
[18:10:04] <Kev> few hundred miles away from me
[18:10:11] <Spike411> Kev: hehe, I know already
[18:10:51] <Spike411> That's a pity, I'd live to have your signature. ;p
[18:10:54] <Spike411> *love
[18:12:22] <albert> ejabberd-1.1.1 is in portage now.
[18:12:29] <Spike411> wow
[18:12:33] <Spike411> I can't believe it!
[18:13:35] <ALok-work> why does it matter?
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[18:14:17] <albert> Because now it is easier to install it.
[18:17:57] <ALok-work> jabber servers confuse me
[18:24:01] <Kev> in what way?
[18:26:15] <ALok-work> configuring them
[18:27:55] <Kev> yeah, that's unpleasant on everything except Wildfire imo
[18:28:14] <Spike411> ejabberd has horrible error logs :(
[18:28:38] <Spike411> And the config file isn't friendly at first as well (many, many parenthesis, grrrr)
[18:33:33] <albert> I have no problems with ejabberd. All error messages that anyone get is easily googleable.
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[18:40:30] <ALok-work> parenthesis like lisp?
[18:40:45] <Spike411> Parenthesis like... erlang! :D
[18:40:57] <ALok-work> i dunno erlang
[18:41:16] <Spike411> I dunno LISP, but I've heard what the name "means". :)
[18:41:38] <Kev> I think it's braces rather than parentheses in erlang?
[18:41:57] <zenek> what's the difference?
[18:42:14] <Spike411> zenek: it's not all simply "závorky" in Czech ;p
[18:42:15] <ALok-work> lisp is like ... everything is a parenthesi
[18:42:29] <ALok-work> (function arguments)
[18:42:33] <zenek> Spike411: I know there's difference, but I'd like to know it ;-)
[18:42:49] <Spike411> (parenthesis) vs. [braces]
[18:42:57] <Spike411> What are {}?
[18:43:02] <Spike411> ah
[18:43:05] <Spike411> curly brackets
[18:43:07] <zenek> I thought braces are {}
[18:43:07] <ALok-work> (defun factorial (n &optional (acc 1))
(if (<= n 1)
acc
(factorial (- n 1) (* acc n))))
[18:43:08] <Kev> no
[18:43:11] <Spike411> Right?
[18:43:12] <Kev> braces are {}
[18:43:13] <zenek> and [] are brackets
[18:43:17] <Kev> parentheses are ()
[18:43:21] <Kev> brackets are []
[18:43:22] <ALok-work> curlycue = {
[18:43:27] <Kev> what zenek says :)
[18:43:32] <ALok-work> :}
[18:43:42] <ALok-work> square brackerts []
[18:43:47] <ALok-work> curly braces {}
[18:44:10] <ALok-work> angle brackets <>
[18:44:16] <Spike411> OK OK
[18:45:29] <Spike411> Hmm, drag & drop for selected text.
[18:45:34] <Spike411> How annoying. :)
[18:48:21] <albert> In lisp everything is a list.
[18:48:52] <zenek> wooow, that's cool
[18:49:10] <Kev> you truly appreciate the elegance of LISP if you ever write a compiler for it ;)
[18:49:40] <ALok-work> isn't everyting a pair?
[18:49:46] <ALok-work> list is a nested pairs
[18:49:51] <ALok-work> (key value)
[18:49:59] <ALok-work> (key (key (key (key value)
[18:50:01] <iono> It's a storyline, it's a plane, no... it's a bird.
[18:50:02] <ALok-work> )))
[18:50:18] <Kev> indeed, everything is a pair of AR and DR
[18:50:26] <Kev> thus the commands CAR and CDR
[18:50:39] <ALok-work> i dunno, never did lisp
[18:50:43] <ALok-work> my roommate did though
[18:50:49] <Kev> I have ;)
[18:50:54] <ALok-work> and he would always ask me questions...
[18:51:00] <ALok-work> and i am like "i dunno lisp"
[18:51:10] <ALok-work> and then i'd solve his problemm
[18:52:41] <albert> CAR and CDR are nothing. CADDDR!
[18:53:06] <albert> (also known as fourth)
[18:54:09] <Kev> CADDDR's a bit silly
[18:54:14] <ALok-work> and almost everything in lisp seemed recursive
[18:54:21] <Kev> I mean, CAR and CDR make a great deal of sense
[18:54:30] <Kev> ALok-work: everything is
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[19:04:53] <albert> But cadddr/fourth is clearly better than (car (cdr (cdr (cdr (cdr list)))).
[19:04:59] <Kev> yes
[19:05:04] <Kev> I cannot deny it
[19:05:05] <albert> Scheme uses head and tail, also better than car and cdr.
[19:05:08] <Kev> no
[19:05:12] <Kev> head and tail is not better
[19:05:26] <Kev> I like car and cdr
[19:05:46] <Kev> since the meaning is somewhat clearer than head/tail
[19:05:56] <albert> first and rest works
[19:06:28] <remko> it is ?
[19:06:30] <remko> what the hell does car and cdr mean ?
[19:06:47] <Kev> contents of the address register and contents of the decrement register
[19:06:59] <ALok-work> i like first/rest
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[19:08:26] <remko> first/rest, never heard of that
[19:08:32] <remko> head and tail, i like that
[19:09:04] <ALok-work> it depends on the dialect of lisp
[19:09:08] <ALok-work> since there are like 20 of them
[19:18:20] <psidekick> 19 Jun 14:48 - Bookmark Storage (JEP-0048). - Bookmark Storage (JEP-0048). - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619144813-04f00-b6bb20592567ff30bfa7cb0796b2f1dfe4843abb.gz
[19:19:13] <マチェック> remko: I think you said 2 days ago that it's not likely to be implemented soon ;)
[19:19:30] <remko> i said
[19:19:31] <remko> 'who kwons'
[19:19:33] <remko> knows
[19:19:38] <remko> anyway, it's not implemented in the roster
[19:19:56] <remko> as the rest of the patch message says: there's no UI yet, but it does auto-join
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[19:28:27] <Spike411> remko: oh, remkooooo! :D
[19:29:30] <Spike411> Remko's blog, April 29th, 2006
"And now we’re really stopping this feature frenzy, we promise !"
[19:29:33] ALok-work likes bookmarks
[19:29:35] <Spike411> :D
[19:31:57] <remko> :)
[19:32:00] <remko> it's part of MUC
[19:32:02] <iono> =)
[19:32:10] <Spike411> remko: of course ;)
[19:32:34] <ALok-work> where do bookmarks get kept?
[19:32:49] <ALok-work> i'd have to have a capable server right :(
[19:32:53] <remko> indeed
[19:33:14] <ALok-work> lets do a better hack, lets use steanography to store it in a png and put it as my avatar
[19:33:55] <ALok-work> :(
[19:33:57] <ALok-work> o well
[19:33:59] iono spanks Alok-work
[19:34:09] <ALok-work> google needs to use a better jabber server
[19:34:20] <ALok-work> does anybody know if they wrote thier own?
[19:34:29] <Spike411> ALok-work: yes, they did
[19:34:29] <Kev> indeed
[19:34:55] <ALok-work> boo that
[19:34:59] <Kev> and actually, the gt server is pretty good
[19:35:04] <Kev> it's just incomplete
[19:35:05] <remko> it certainly is
[19:35:14] <ALok-work> very incomplete
[19:35:18] <remko> 'very' ?
[19:35:24] <Kev> that's pushing it a bit I think
[19:35:29] <ALok-work> but its good only beacuse they pay people to write it
[19:35:34] <ALok-work> and they prbbly have fun doing it
[19:35:36] <Kev> afaik, it's xmpp-complete
[19:35:37] <Spike411> Kev: how do you know it's good? It's probably stable, yes.
[19:35:44] <Kev> Spike411: they have some nice features
[19:35:53] <Spike411> Server-side history, yay.
[19:35:57] <Kev> they manage broadcast of vcard avatars server-side, for example
[19:36:03] <ALok-work> avatar taged with gmail
[19:36:12] <Kev> people have wanted serverside history for a long time spike
[19:36:27] <Spike411> Kev: yes, it's great
[19:36:35] <Spike411> Kev: integration with GMail. :)
[19:36:46] <ALok-work> well the gmail integration is like ajax
[19:36:46] <remko> alok: what is missing ?
[19:37:02] <remko> alok: except private storage
[19:37:05] <ALok-work> pubsub, bookmarks, vcard nickname
[19:37:06] <Spike411> ALok-work: huh, I mean logs integration
[19:37:16] <remko> alok: nobody uses pubsub
[19:37:21] <remko> alok: vcard nickname ?
[19:37:24] <Kev> ALok-work: pubsub's not interesting for IM
[19:37:24] <remko> alok: oh, that
[19:37:26] <ALok-work> doesn't ejabberd have it?
[19:37:32] <Spike411> Umm... what can I do with pubsub? :)
[19:37:33] <remko> alok: yes, but who uses it in the IM world ?
[19:37:37] <remko> alok: nobody
[19:37:42] <ALok-work> true...
[19:37:47] <Spike411> I'd love to to use it... for something... :)
[19:37:53] <ALok-work> anyways... vcard nick name is annoying
[19:37:57] <ALok-work> cause it does not keep it
[19:38:01] <remko> alok: true
[19:38:07] <remko> alok: so we have private XML storage, and nick names
[19:38:14] <remko> alok: that doesn't count as 'a lot' to me
[19:38:55] <Kev> especially
[19:38:57] <ALok-work> there are some others...
[19:39:05] <Kev> when it's the best scaling xmpp server in the world afaik
[19:39:15] <ALok-work> prbbly
[19:39:51] <Spike411> Are there any approximate user-numbers?
[19:40:11] <Kev> Spike411: I don't know
[19:40:26] <Kev> but I had a brief chat with the devs about their setup, and it's pretty impressive
[19:41:43] <Spike411> It's a pity that they don't have some kind of (optional) JUD (or GTUD :D). Some people (teenage mostly :D) are into meeting random people using some search on hobbies etc.
[19:42:10] <Kev> maybe they shall have in the future
[19:43:04] <ALok-work> google talk client is severly limiting though...
[19:44:07] <Spike411> Hmm, maybe integration with that Orkut (?) thing...
[19:44:12] <ALok-work> what is that?
[19:44:16] <ALok-work> no one uses it?
[19:44:28] <remko> orkut, that's like something from years ago
[19:44:36] <remko> i think the new one is myspace.com
[19:44:40] <Spike411> Yeah. :D
[19:44:43] <remko> and there have been 10 more in the meantime
[19:44:48] <ALok-work> myspace sucks
[19:44:50] <Spike411> Never used one. :D
[19:44:55] <iono> myspace = arse-cave
[19:45:15] <ALok-work> 1994 html + dumb people = myspace
[19:45:29] <remko> well, apparently, many people are on it
[19:45:33] <remko> a lot of artists as well
[19:46:00] <Kev> It's probably not entirely fair to discriminate against people because you think they're less bright than you
[19:46:12] <ALok-work> most myspace pages are unreadable
[19:46:22] <Spike411> Oh, yes, my favorite Protomen have myspace profile. :D
[19:46:26] <ALok-work> due to old style death page html
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[19:52:13] <ALok-work> later guys
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[19:55:33] <zenek> Hi there... I cannot send file in Psi0.11 using FT proxy to a bot, but I can send the file with Psi 0.10 to the same bot... Were there some changes in file transfer code?
[19:56:18] <Kev> zenek: I'd like to say 'no', but I wouldn't stake my life on it
[19:56:46] <zenek> Kev: hm, well that's weird...
[19:56:55] <zenek> I should check differences in XML console I guess...
[20:07:51] <Spike411> zenek: WORKSFORME
[20:08:21] <zenek> Spike411: Did you try netlab's jabberdisk?
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[20:08:59] <Spike411> zenek: yup
[20:15:34] <Spike411> omfg, omfg, drag & drop invitations?!
[20:15:51] <Kev> they don't work though ;)
[20:15:59] <Spike411> *sigh* :D
[20:16:37] <Spike411> When they do work and when you guys come to the Czech Republic... I let's have a drink, right? :D
[20:16:48] <Spike411> Forgot the "I". :)
[20:16:54] <Spike411> *forget
[20:17:10] <zenek> I think it's great idea
[20:18:37] <Spike411> Hmm, I thought that "auto-join" is saved at the server...
[20:18:55] <Spike411> Ah, doesn't matter.
[20:18:59] <Spike411> Now I see. :)
[20:19:14] <psidekick> 19 Jun 15:20 - Drag & drop inviting (FS#64). - Drag & drop inviting (FS#64). - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619152028-04f00-377d0e422bf9bce13d74d23a0c4eceec57af5d63.gz
[20:20:52] <マチェック> Spike411: where in Czech Rep do you live?
[20:20:58] <Spike411> Prague
[20:21:08] <マチェック> hmm
[20:21:22] <Spike411> I'll be back in September, though. :)
[20:21:24] <マチェック> I guess every part of Czech if equally far from me ;)
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[20:22:26] <Spike411> Hmm, I wonder why the rooms aren't auto-joined.
[20:22:34] <zenek> machekku: Where in Poland do you live?
[20:22:59] <マチェック> in theory, I live in Ciechanów
[20:23:04] <マチェック> but right now studying in Warsaw
[20:23:22] <マチェック> (Ciechanów is 100km north-west from Warsaw)
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[20:24:25] <zenek> I see.
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[20:49:33] <psidekick> 19 Jun 16:42 - Avatars are back. - Avatars are back. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619164258-04f00-ccb17ac6fa63d5bbffd5c531d5d8cb6a2c70d0ab.gz
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[20:51:23] <albert> Crashes are back too.
[20:51:30] <Spike411> lol
[20:51:35] <remko> albert: gdb
[20:51:39] <albert> I got a message from my transport that it failed to log me on (probably).
[20:51:46] <remko> albert: that doesn't surprise me
[20:51:56] <remko> albert: that it crashes there
[20:52:03] <remko> albert: although it is a pain in the ass :(
[20:52:04] <albert> Now as long as I don't open it, it will won't crash.
[20:52:07] <remko> albert: can you run it under gdb ?
[20:52:16] <albert> Probably, but I have to go bbq now.
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[21:04:26] <LRN> What transport exactly?
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[21:11:56] <slubman@psi-dev> Hi
[21:12:17] slubman@psi-dev is now known as slubman
[21:13:16] <マチェック> hello
[21:14:38] <slubman> Does anyone have Psi-dev killed when trying to see a message (not chat one) ?
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[21:17:03] <remko> slubman: yes, albert :)
[21:17:42] <slubman> so the problem is known :)
[21:18:12] <remko> well
[21:18:20] <remko> the problem, yes, the bug, no
[21:18:29] <remko> slubman: can you run psi in gdb
[21:18:35] <remko> and give us a backtrace ?
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[21:22:29] <knorg> hello
[21:26:22] <knorg> basic problem: how can i install a language file?
[21:27:45] <マチェック> put it in your psi dir
[21:29:23] <knorg> had done that, nothing happened
[21:29:34] <マチェック> hmm
[21:29:41] <マチェック> it does not appear on the list of languages?
[21:29:53] <knorg> hold on
[21:30:04] <slubman> remko: http://pastebin.com/718840, that's what i get
[21:30:10] <slubman> with gdb
[21:33:02] <remko> slubman: have you compiled Psi with 'CONFIG += debug' ?
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[21:34:25] <remko> slubman: are you talking about real messages, or chats ?
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[21:34:46] <slubman> real messages
[21:35:08] <slubman> psi is recompiling with CONFIG+=DEBUG
[21:35:22] <remko> slubman: don't bother, i found it :)
[21:35:27] <remko> even without debug info ;)
[21:35:59] <slubman> i've got a more complete backtrace thought
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[21:36:16] <remko> slubman: i can see what i did wrong :)
[21:36:24] <slubman> good :)
[21:36:35] <zenek> the CONFIG+=DEBUG is not default?
[21:36:48] <slubman> zenek: no
[21:36:59] <slubman> it wasn't in the psi.pro
[21:37:26] <remko> slubman: look in src/src.pro
[21:37:29] <remko> it should be default actually
[21:37:44] <slubman> yes it is
[21:38:46] <remko> slubman: thank god it's not the bug i thought it was ;)
[21:42:16] <remko> slubman: fix pushed
[21:42:55] <slubman> go to test it
[21:43:11] <slubman> when the recompilation will be finished
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[21:47:57] <zenek> remko: So you don't need backtrace from sigsegv after receiveing chatroom invite anymore?
[21:50:19] <psidekick> 19 Jun 17:40 - Fixed segfault due to tab ordering. - Fixed segfault due to tab ordering. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619174018-04f00-d2014200adb3d1d4d41bc3562853cf4c09f574e4.gz
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[21:51:05] <remko> zenek: nope
[21:51:09] <zenek> okay
[21:51:29] <remko> zenek: it's odd taht it didn't crash me earlier today, because i was testing invites after i committed the patch that caused the segfault
[21:52:09] <slubman> no more crashes here
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[21:52:48] <remko> excellent
[21:52:57] <remko> woops, i hope that wasn't a crash ;)
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[21:53:37] <slubman> no, i'm present with psi-o.11 instead of 0.10 now
[21:53:37] <zenek> Neither here.
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[21:57:16] <zenek> Why is there a "next" button when two invitations open in two windows?
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[22:15:12] <c00i90wn> remko: is jep-0048 usable already?
[22:15:18] <VxJasonxV> !jep 48
[22:15:20] <psidekick> VxJasonxV: JEP-0048: Bookmark Storage:
http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0048.html
[22:15:23] <VxJasonxV> mmmm
[22:24:18] <remko> c00i90wn: in a sense
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[22:25:03] <spike> c00i90wn: if you set conference bookmarks using another client or using xml console, Psi will auto-login to them
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[22:33:55] <c00i90wn> ‎‍‎remko, Spike: ok thank's I'll try it out
[22:34:33] <LRN> conf bookmarks is good.
[22:35:37] <slubman> interesting, it was a very interesting missing feature in psi :)
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[22:38:01] <LRN> Someone could explain me how GNUTLS works? Or, exactly, how x509 certificate authentication works.
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[22:49:02] <c00i90wn> remko: doesn't seem to be working for me, added one bookmark using a console and doesn't autojoin, tried connecting with exodus and it did autojoined the room
[22:49:30] <slubman> c00i90wn: don't work here too
[22:49:38] <slubman> s/don't/doesn't/
[22:49:48] <spike> slubman: can you guys log in, and paste me the <iq> response you get after logging in ?
[22:49:59] <c00i90wn> spike: yes sure
[22:50:01] <spike> the <iq> response to the bookmark receival query
[22:50:09] <slubman> spike: from psi, or the other client ?
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[22:50:27] <spike> slubman: psi
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[22:52:06] <spike> sbulman, c00i90wn: if there is one :D
[22:52:12] <spike> it should happen right after the receiving of the roster
[22:52:24] <c00i90wn> spike: there is none
[22:52:30] <spike> hmm :)
[22:52:39] <spike> can you look in options.xml
[22:52:45] <spike> and look for the auto-join tag ?
[22:52:54] <c00i90wn> spike: options-default.xml ?
[22:53:05] <Kev> no,
[22:53:17] <Kev> ~/.psi/profiles/YOURPROFILE/options.xml
[22:53:59] <c00i90wn> true
[22:54:10] <c00i90wn> it's set to true
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[22:56:09] <spike> that is very odd
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[22:56:18] <c00i90wn> spike: I see a get iq for bookmarks
[22:56:23] <spike> c00i90wn: aha
[22:56:25] <spike> c00i90wn: and ?
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[22:56:29] <c00i90wn> spike: there is no reply though
[22:56:46] <slubman> spike: http://pastebin.com/719073
[22:56:56] <slubman> and the option is set to true
[22:57:01] <c00i90wn> spike: actually, I get this as reply
[22:57:03] <c00i90wn> <iq from="c00i90wn@litestep.com" type="result" to="c00i90wn@litestep.com/Home (Father)" id="aac2a" >
<query xmlns="jabber:iq:private">
<storage xmlns="storage:bookmarks"/>
</query>
</iq>
[22:57:29] <spike> that means either i am using the wrong namespace, or the other client you used to set bookmarks did not send any bookmarks
[22:57:46] <c00i90wn> spike: I set the bookmark using xml console
[22:57:52] <spike> slubman: aha
[22:57:56] <spike> slubman: autojoin="1"
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[22:58:03] <spike> c00i90wn: you set it wrong then :D
[22:58:14] <spike> slubman: i don't parse "1"
[22:58:18] <c00i90wn> spike: exodus retrieved it correctly
[22:58:20] <spike> is that a valid bool in XML ?
[22:58:36] <slubman> i don't know, i set the bookmarks with gakjim
[22:58:44] <slubman> but tkabber retrieve them correctly
[22:59:02] <spike> i need to find out what valid values are for 'bool' types
[22:59:52] <spike> slubman: i'll also parse "1" as true and "0" as false then
[23:00:04] <c00i90wn> spike: and I followed the directions on the jep page
[23:00:53] <spike> c00i90wn: can you double check that you get no reply ?
[23:01:00] <spike> because that would really surprise me
[23:02:23] <spike> slubman: darcs pull, make, and try again
[23:02:51] <slubman> k
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[23:03:42] <slubman> it works fine :)
[23:04:02] <spike> super
[23:04:38] <slubman> about MUC
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[23:04:49] <slubman> the window MUC is no more resizable :S
[23:05:09] <spike> hmm ?
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[23:05:22] <slubman> i can't resize the MUC windows
[23:06:07] <c00i90wn> spike: going to check again
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[23:08:23] <slubman> i've got this problem with resize, since 2 days
[23:09:00] <c00i90wn> spike: I don't seem to get anything with psi
[23:09:01] <remko> odd
[23:09:09] <remko> c00i90wn: very weird
[23:09:14] <remko> c00i90wn: so you do an <iq>
[23:09:23] <remko> c00i90wn: iq get, and you do not get any rreply whatsoever ?
[23:10:01] <c00i90wn> <iq type="get" id="aadaa" >
<query xmlns="jabber:iq:private">
<storage xmlns="storage:bookmarks"/>
</query>
</iq>
<iq from="c00i90wn@litestep.com" type="result" to="c00i90wn@litestep.com/Home (Father)" id="aadaa" >
<query xmlns="jabber:iq:private">
<storage xmlns="storage:bookmarks"/>
</query>
</iq>
[23:11:34] <c00i90wn> remko: What's what I get
[23:11:38] <c00i90wn> *That's
[23:12:12] <c00i90wn> remko: going to try connecting with exodus
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[23:18:32] <remko> c00i90wn: and ?
[23:19:34] <c00i90wn> remko: If I set it with exodus and not with console, I get a non empty result but it doesn't auto join because autojoin='-1'
[23:19:51] <c00i90wn> remko: If I set it with console, I can't bookmark anything
[23:20:02] <slubman> c00i90wn: you get the last patch ?
[23:20:02] <remko> c00i90wn: paste me the XML you are sending using console
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[23:20:19] <remko> because i set my bookmarks using console
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[23:20:36] <zenek42> bookmarks work for me
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[23:21:05] <c00i90wn> <iq type='result' id='2'>
<query xmlns='jabber:iq:private'>
<storage xmlns='storage:bookmarks'>
<conference name='Psi Support'
autojoin='true'
jid='psi@conference.jabber.ru'>
<nick>c00i90wn</nick>
</conference>
</storage>
</query>
</iq>
[23:21:06] <remko> aha
[23:21:09] <slubman> really works fine here too
[23:21:10] <remko> i just noticed
[23:21:16] <remko> you have to do type='set' :)
[23:21:30] <psidekick> 19 Jun 19:01 - Also parse "1" as "true" for autojoin. - Also parse "1" as "true" for autojoin. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619190118-04f00-5d070768b55dee28e3f717ca140d22bc8fc4d554.gz
[23:21:46] <remko> the JEP is an example of a *response*, not of how to set the bookmarks
[23:21:52] <zenek42> Yeah I did
<iq type="set" id="1001">
<query xmlns='jabber:iq:private'>
<storage xmlns='storage:bookmarks'>
<conference name='Psi conference'
autojoin='true'
jid='psi@conference.jabber.ru'>
<nick>zenek42</nick>
</conference>
</storage>
</query>
</iq>
[23:22:00] <LRN> why don't you always parse 1 as true and 0 as false?
[23:22:01] <remko> exactly
[23:22:06] <remko> LRN: because i forgot
[23:22:28] <remko> LRN: forgive me for not knowing XML Schema from the top of my head
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[23:22:56] <LRN> H-m-m-m...i thought your XML parser should handle this, not your head...
[23:23:06] <remko> an xml parser does not recognize types
[23:23:22] <remko> an xml parser only recognizes strings as attributes
[23:23:26] <LRN> H-m-m-...what parser you use?
[23:23:28] <psidekick> 19 Jun 18:45 - Don't send groupchat presence through core presence handling. - Don't send groupchat presence through core presence handling. - http://dev.psi-im.org/darcs/web/darcsweb.cgi?r=psi;a=commit;h=20060619184540-04f00-099688cb85b0914402a15a22afe8eb76097e35d8.gz
[23:23:35] <remko> Qt's XML parser
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[23:27:16] <c00i90wn> remko: It's working now :)
[23:27:43] <c00i90wn> remko: why does it say's type='result' in the jep then?
[23:28:15] <remko> c00i90wn: the JEP doesnt' say "this is an example of how to set bookmarks" either ;)
[23:28:26] <c00i90wn> remko: That's true :P
[23:28:27] <remko> c00i90wn: the JEP says "This is an example of the conference element", which it indeed is :)
[23:28:38] <c00i90wn> remko: I see :)
[23:29:50] <slubman> Am i the only one having with trouble with MUCs windows resizing ?
[23:30:37] <c00i90wn> I don't have any problems with that :P
[23:31:11] <slubman> strange
[23:31:38] <zenek42> Hm, i wonder how can I delete the bookmark
[23:31:49] <slubman> oh my god, it was my fault :S
[23:31:59] <slubman> i had forced the size in kde
[23:32:57] <remko> :)
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[23:36:58] <halr9000> case anyone had noticed the recurring time-wandering issue on the website, particularly on the forum post timestamps, I made a kernel change and will be rebooting the server tonight. hopefully this'll fix the post-from-the-future issue
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ejabberd/mod_muc log